/SYAC
Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America
OHHH, saved you a click
LOL yeah, hope you didn’t have to search for that or the effort was wasted :)
Proving she’s not an establishment Dem by having the ability to read the fucking room.
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Are you a right wing moron or a genocide loving Zionist scumbag? Oops sorry, I said the same thing twice. I’ll put you down for both.
Keyboard warrior energy is insane
Yes please put him down for us. Thanks.
Not to worry - there will still be prisons in which to toss your terrorist ass
you sound like a capitalist bro, wtf
She’s the past, the present and the future. All hail our socialist queen!
No queens no god no masters thank you very much
She’s one of the only notable young Democrat leaders. Not hard to see why she gets support. Even bad socialism is better than whatever the fuck we currently have.
Even bad socialism is better than whatever the fuck we currently have.
The economic system where oligarchs use the military industrial complex, insider trading with market manipulation and tariffs to put tax money directly into their pockets?
It’s beyond just the violations of capitalism. Now it’s just transparent corruption.
They’ve invented something new. It’s called Crapitalism.
They’ve invested something new. It’s called Crapitalism.
For your consideration, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy
Since 2011, more than $1 trillion has left developing countries annually in illicit financial outflows. A 2016 study found that $12 trillion had been siphoned out of developing economies.[15]
In a 2011 forensic study of grand corruption cases, the World Bank found the United States was the leading victim of illegal incorporation of entities involved in money laundering schemes.[24] The Department of the Treasury estimates that $300 billion is laundered annually in the United States in violation of US law.[25]
This kleptocratic financial system flourishes in the United States by illegally abusing the United States’ liberal economic structure for two reasons.
- First, the United States does not have a beneficial ownership registry, and kleptocrats take advantage of this privacy benefit.[26]
- Second, kleptocrats take advantage of incorporation agents, lawyers, and realtors to unknowingly launder their money.
Yeah that sounds about right. Probably conservative estimates, to boot.
So this is what capitalists mean by “innovation”.
Inventing new, clever ways to grift people!
First, the United States does not have a beneficial ownership registry, and kleptocrats take advantage of this privacy benefit.
It was about to but then Trump cancelled it before it came in. Shocker.
See also: kakistocracy
Corruptism the American way
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She’s trusted, she’s smart, she’s always 10 steps ahead, and most of all, she’s a GOOD person, and incorruptible. She’s thinking about the people, and she makes it very clear she works for US. I don’'t have to agree with everything she’s for, but that’s okay, she’s still the kind of person I want to see in charge.
Why is she incorruptible…? Calling people that seems of dubious wisdom to me 😅 its kinda hard to say whether she’s corruptible until she’s sat in a position of serious power long-term, and generally “incorruptible” isnt a good adjective for humans 😅
Let’s wait for perfect instead. That’ll work out wonderfully!
The last two years should help people remember … if there’s another vote.
I gave up on being happy with election results when Kucinich lost the primary
She’s the epitome of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
all hail indeed, it can’t come soon enough.
This is such a nonstory, but okay, cool. AOC was a member previously, certainly seems to be pretty damned compatible with her views, and once the DSA noticed she wasn’t a member, renewed her membership.
The DSA didn’t “notice” anything. They’ve known the whole time. She left the DSA to join the Democratic party because the Democratic party was the only way to get elected anywhere. Because they had such a stranglehold on the “left wing” of our political system. What changed is that’s no longer the case. The Democratic party is falling to shit because of the centrists who are basically Republicans at this point. So she is leaving that party and going back to the DSA and solidifying her position there because like her we all need to abandon the Democratic party and embrace Democratic socialism.
She left the DSA to join the Democratic party
DSA is not a party. That’s part of the reason it’s unable to discipline elected officials . . . which is one reason that AOC is able to do nonsense like “working tirelessly for a ceasefire” and find no reprecussion from the org.
But nobody leaves DSA to join the Democrats. Most DSA members ARE registered Democrats, especially in closed primary states.
The DSA didn’t “notice” anything. They’ve known the whole time.
I’d love a source for this claim.
She left the DSA to join the Democratic party because the Democratic party was the only way to get elected anywhere.
The DSA is a political organization, not a political party. They do not run candidates. They do endorse people.
If you are DSA and run for office, you run as a Democrat or Independent or whatever else.
So this is two strikes against you knowing what you’re talking about.
So she is leaving that party and going back to the DSA
You are ignorant of what the DSA actually is.
because like her we all need to abandon the Democratic party and embrace Democratic socialism.
I support the DSA because they are the most progressive organization out there, and they are actually getting support, so I feel my support of them increases the visibility and support for progressive ideas. And I am not afraid of the word “socialism”, and if “democratic socialism” takes off and helps us get human rights, social safety nets, and all the other things, I’m all for it.
That said, most people who are running for office who affiliate with the DSA will be running as… wait for it… Democrats.
Including AOC.
So please go do a little research.
I’d love a source for this claim.
The source is literally in the OP article.
Ocasio-Cortez Loses the Democratic Socialists’ Endorsement Over Israel
No, the source does not make that claim. But more importantly, I see you’re ignoring the rest of their misinformation. Even if I concede that point, which I am not prepared to do, the rest of their comment is sheer bullshit.
I didn’t say anything about the rest of their comment. You asked for a source and I provided it.
How on earth does a source talking about the DSA deliberately withdrawing their support not contradict your claim that they “didn’t notice” she wasn’t a member?
It added: “Previously, the representative joined DSA in 2018 with a one-year membership, which DSA’s national leadership recently noticed had lapsed, in 2019. She has since renewed her membership as of this month.”
Do you not understand language?
AOC has previously made a deliberate point of talking about not being a member of the national organization, but rather her local one. The national DSA withdrew their conditional endorsement over her stance on Israel.
Now that they’re making amends, they’re putting it that way to be diplomatic, as though it was a simple oversight. But there have been significant rifts and disagreements, so it isn’t a non-story like you suggested.
The DSA didn’t “notice” anything. They’ve known the whole time. She left the DSA to join the Democratic party because the Democratic party was the only way to get elected anywhere.
That’s not how it works though. DSA is legally a 501c4. It parasitize the Democratic ballot line, but any DSA member running on the Dem ballot line wouldn’t have to give up their DSA membership.
What happened here was likely that her dues lapsed without her knowing(a thing that happens relatively often, and it isn’t anyone’s fault), and nobody noticed. National has to submit requests to the relevant staff for that information, so they weren’t checking. And NYC-DSA, who would have been the ones responsible for checking when doing endorsements, just assumed she was a still paying dues, when she wasn’t.
DSA isn’t a party though
The tea party was just a movement, not a political party, and they eventually took over the Republican Party. I expect this will eventually happen because they don’t want to split the party or make a new one that’s never going to win major elections.
The DSA is famously embarrassing and incompetent. I’m as left wing as it gets and I wouldn’t want to be associated with those dumbasses.
Yes I’m glad they’re winning more elections this year but it really has more to do with anti-Trump, anti-tech feelings and progressive messaging than the DSA itself. They have some stupid out of touch nonsense on their website that just provides fodder to use against their candidates.
If I ran as a progressive I’m not sure I’d affiliate with them.
I’m as left wing as they get but I wont support the closest American political group with a chance at getting representation in government. In fact, I’ll actively denigrate and discourage others from supporting them too. That’ll unlock the future I claim to want!
If they run (or endorse, whatever) another ex-military psycho candidate with a Nazi tattoo I’m gonna really stop trusting them. Til then when they show up I’ll vote for em, sure. But absolutely no veterans and no Neo Nazi / Nazi affiliate whatsoever.
Better add the ‘sarcasm’ symbol. I’ve seen plenty of folks say pretty much the exact same thing unironically
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So you think that I, an anarchist, should support pro-Russian-imperialist, anti-science orgs like the DSA? Why? So we can come up with ineffective slogans and ban some words?
EDIT: weird that nobody can answer this very direct and simple question, but lots of downvotes.
Here’s a history lesson.
Frederick Douglas was an escaped slave. In 1860 he was a famous speaker who had a lot of influence even though he himself couldn’t vote. He had a choice; support the Abolition candidate who had virtually no chance of winning the election, or throw his support behind Abe Lincoln. Lincoln’s position was that saving the Union was more important than freeing the slaves.
Douglas chose Lincoln. He figured that it was better to have an actual win and be able to talk to the President, than it was to lose and be out in the cold.
So you agree that leftists should be concerned with seizing control of the Democratic Party and other levers of power? Rather than, say, cosplaying as effete revolutionaries culturally repellent to the working class?
I literally laughed out loud when I read your comment.
You call yourself an ‘anarchist’ and then get on other people for cosplaying?
I don’t care what you do because I’m positive it’s going to be inconsequential and ineffective.
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Woke 1 was crazy, amirite 😜
And let’s continue funding Israel’s Iron Dome, so that nobody in the region can retaliate 😊
DSA is the field, not the team. If you’re left wing, you go there because that’s where you can find left wing people to organize.
The left wing should be taking over the Democratic Party and seizing levers of power, not cosplaying as revolutionaries in the DSA, the organization responsible for moronic slogans like “defund the police.”
That’s been the strategy for 10 years, since Bernie’s first run.
How’s that working?
I’m not knocking the DSA, but the idea of a left-wing takeover of the Democratic Party is less applicable than ever. Unlike 2016, the centrist Dems are well aware of the threat to their left - and it’s obvious, that’s the ONLY thing they’re determined to stop. Which is why they’re currently spending their time attacking Hassan Piker and anyone else opposing the genocide in Gaza, not Donald Trump.
Any victory you find in the Democratic Party will be pyrric at best, imho. By the time you defeat these people, what will be left?
How can you say it doesn’t work when that’s literally what maga did?
The DSA didn’t originate that slogan, and it was originally “Defund, disarm, disband the police.” Anyway, how can anyone “seize the levers of power” without changing anything about how policing works in this country?
Also, taking over the Democratic Party from the inside is literally the DSA’s stated goal. Why are you so mad at them? They agree with you on this one!
If you don’t have power, you’re not changing the police.
This isn’t about ideology for me. I actually want the police defunded and reformed. If I thought joining the dork squad would get me closer to that goal, I would do so.
Of course you support entryism. How unthinkable is it for you people that maybe your police doesn’t need military equipment?
If I had ANY EVIDENCE that supporting organizations like the DSA would help left wing goals, then I would do so. Instead of providing such evidence you’re spouting nonsense ideology at me and literally proving my point.
No this is huge. a large political statement actually in light of recent events
Would join as well but DSA co-chair Megan Romer is an absolute wet fart of a human. She makes it too embarrassing to be a member… that and the Marxist book clubs.
you’re upset that a socialist organization has socialist book clubs?
Socialism is not marxism…
Edit: What I’m trying to say is socialism is not just marxism.
Marx and Lenin are absolutely necessary for socialist theory. what are you talking about? and God, why do I always take the bait??
There was a socialist tradition before Marx and Engels, and some people still read those authors. Robert Owen is one example
That doesn’t make Marx not socialism you people are being kinda weird and I still do not understand
I don’t think anyone was saying that, I certainly wasn’t. Just that there is non-Marxist socialism
100% true. I was just very weirded out by the original comment “socialism isnt marxism”, without any context it’s just confusing, and the only context I got from the person themselves is “there are other forms of socialism”, which is not what the original comment said at all. If it did I wouldn’t have replied in the first place. If that’s what they meant then it should say “socialism isn’t just Marxism, then it would make sense and we could discuss what that means. But that’s not what was said. might be an English thing and I’d feel like a dick if it were
Marxism is a type of socialism. So almost all marxisms are socialisms and not all socialisms are marxisms.
Yeah, and that’s why Marxism = socialism. Same with Maoism, Stalinism, Trotsky, Gramsci, etc. saying “but Marxism isn’t socialism” is WAY different than saying “it’s only a type of socialism” and I don’t understand why you’d try to lie about what you said when it’s right there.
If it’s not socialism then what is ML ?
Marxism is not equal to socialism, because marxism is a type of socialism. They’re not synonyms.
I reworded my first comment to avoid confusion.
And Marxism-Leninism is not the same as Marxism, but it is still a type of socialism (but a different type)
lol no Marxism is socialist theory. Quit being pedantic. That means it IS socialism. Just one type still means it is socialism. And ML having differences from just Marxism doesn’t make it not socialism. I really don’t understand your argument and I don’t really care enough to.
If you consider yourself socialist you have to read Marx and Lenin at some point, same with Trotsky and Stalin. Etc. does no good to separate 2 parts of a whole, if that makes sense.
How are you organizing your community?
I’m not. I will support candidates that align with my views by sending them money. DSA is close to my views, but it has too many communists and the org is led by amateurs that don’t know how to speak or win an argument.
I’m not
you might want to start, instead of armchair arguing against DSA…
I’m a fan of the DSA for the time, but I’m afraid they have the same structural weakness of all political organizations. I can’t bring myself to give then money.
What structural weakness?
People.
I’m afraid you’ll have to get over that hangup. Considering how politics literally means “of the people”
Literally cannot stand politics. It maybe I can’t stand that I need to pay attention to them and be involved. I just want everything to work, but it’s those goddamn people fucking things up all the time.
Not being engaged in politics is synonymous with not being engaged in life.
Politics is “of the people”, unless you’re living alone in a cave in the middle of the woods and never using anything you didn’t yourself make or extract, you are engaged in politics. Every time you interact with literally anything, ever, at all, for any reason, you are doing something political.
My biggest complaint about modern neo liberalism is the cultural work it’s done to convince people “politics” is not synonymous “existence”.
I think it’s because it’s taken on a modern meaning that as synonymous with rich people getting richer, poor people going and fighting wars, taxing working class folk and not the businesses they work for, and so much more. When I hear politics, I certainly don’t hear “of the people,” I hear “special interests only.”
So me, personally, I don’t consider much of what I do politicking, but I also know I need to be engaged and involved, or else someone is going to politick away the rights of me and my neighbors. And that is why I can’t stand it. I just want things to work, but they won’t because people actively work to make things a fucking mess.
How do you think it got this way? Because most Americans don’t engage with politics, therefore letting the people who perpetrate those things have nearly free reign to decide for you that’s what you want.
First comment outta the gate. lol
What does AOC and DSA have to do with Epstein ?
Exactly! They are not doing enough or even anything about it!
Yet somehow are wholly responsible
What a joke. She is a fucking opportunist. DSA would be foolish to back her she will spit on them every step of her way to power.
Another HOT .ml TAKE! You people are all such clowns lol
The fuck?
She’s progressive. DSA is progressive. The fuck is your problem?
She voted to give weapons to Israel, to redefine antisemitism to include antizionism, and to break a rail strike. Each of those is a significant red flag that, regardless of progressive posturing, she will submit to the wishes of the establishment when push comes to shove.
The state of politics in the US is so bad that many progressives will immediately cling to and champion anyone who says progressive things, but talk is cheap. It’s fair to evaluate and judge politicians not just by their rhetoric, but whether they actually follow through with their promises.
This take is so stupid. It’s clear online lefties have absolutely no idea about i/p except what they see from twitter and instagram. Yea, the state of us politics is so bad, I agree, that lefties are incapable of dealing with any reality outside of slop soundbites
Cool.
Like, take your outlandish headlines for example. The claims sound really damming at face value. But when you actually read up on it, reality starts to make more sense than these slop sound bytes. But, here we are
Cool.
AOC isn’t left enough for many MLs and neither is the DSA, sadly.
There are MLs in DSA. One of the orgs co-chairs is one
Two actuallyI misreadI’m not sure what you mean. One if the orgs national co-chairs is from the Red Star caucus, which is explicitly Marxist-Leninist.
While the other national co-chair is from Groundwork Caucus, which is more reformist and ecologically oriented, having grown out of the Green New Deal movement.
I’m sorry I misread as NPC before my coffee, you’re correct
Thanks for the info
Hence why we call them tankies.
You’re forgetting how tankies hate liberals.
which is why idiot liberals now call anyone not subscribed to continuing their decades of failure a tankie
We all know how much they hate libs, it’s their most-used pejorative. To be fair though, establishment liberals (eg Schumer) are part of the reason we’re in this mess… I can’t say I hold them in high regard either.
Yes but most tankies seem to hate centrist neoliberal Dems worse than they hate maga republicans. And they consider DSA to be centrist neolibs like the rest if the democratic party.
They’d rather see a trump third term than a Dem or even DSA president.
Trump is collapsing American hegemony around the globe, making him an accidental great man of history.
Not sure what you’re intending to accomplish by saying that or how it applies to what I said. But I wouldn’t call him great. Influential, yes, infamous, also yes. But not great.
Unless you consider Hitler to be a “great man,” but honestly trump is closer to Mussolini (although he wishes he could be like Hitler). Hitler accomplished more than trump could dream of. Evil, repugnant, and deplorable, yes. But effective, without a doubt.
And I also wouldn’t say it’s accidental. He views himself as a “great man,” and tries to do what he thinks a great man would. But everything he does is what a small man would, because he has the mind of a small man. He just happens to have fallen into a life of privilege which surrounded him with the people and wealth necessary to achieve what he has. Anyone placed in his shoes could have accomplished as much and more, and done it better.
So no, he’s not an “accidental great man.” He’s a failed attempt at greatness which happens to have caused immense destruction to everything and everyone except for his corrupt inner circle which is profiting off of that destruction. If that’s what “greatness” is to you, then we don’t see eye-to-eye.
Yes but most tankies seem to hate centrist neoliberal Dems worse than they hate maga republicans.
I mean… Sometimes, it’s easier to hate those who lie about being progressive, than those who tell the truth about being reactionaries.
Okay but lumping DSA in with th centrist establishment Dems is counterproductive
They don’t really, it’s just that’s what you see in leftist spaces. Really they are just state-sponsered shit-stirrers interested in driving as many wedges between Americans (not exclusively, but America is a big target for geopolitical reasons) as they can. They are worse than zealots; they are unprincipled opportunistic FUD machines.
Yeah, that’s the only explanation that makes sense. No one could be as irrational as tankies.
Oh wait, maga fascists are that irrational and it seems genuine.
I’m tired, boss…
Truth. It’s a religion.
There are no liberals, only neoliberals.
He’s an .ml user, that’s his problem
There are people in DSA with that person’s opinion.
No there aren’t. there’s a difference between Marxist-Leninist thinkers and trolls like u/antifa_ceo. The former are communists and generally cool folk, the latter are generally Anti-american (not exclusively, but largely) state-sponsered shit-stirrers whose only purpose on the fediverse is to stoke hatred within the left and keep them divided while Trump and co. burn their countries down.
You can either be a communist, or you can support the actions of Putin’s and Xi’s governments. You can’t do both.
No there aren’t
Yes there are.
Liberation condemns Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s continued retreat from socialist politics and rejects any effort to present her as the future presidential standard-bearer for DSA, or for the broader socialist movement.
AOC hasn’t “retreated” from socialist politics. She’s had to adapt and be pragmatic since getting elected to serve in federal office, unlike anyone in that so-called “liberation caucus”. They sound like a bunch of backseat drivers to me.
One person can’t just show up in congress and suddenly make socialist policies happen. That’s gonna require a majority in both chambers to pass. Expecting AOC to do all that by herself and accusing her of selling out when it doesn’t happen immediately, is asinine.
This is the problem on the left. We spend more time cannibalizing ourselves than we do actually working to get more socialists elected. The recent successes in the DSA have been in spite of the naysayers, not because of them.
So, for the record, the passage I quoted is not necessarily representative of my personal opinion. The person I responded to wrongly asserted that no one in DSA holds the position that AOC’s political engagement has, to one extent or another, been opportunistic.
I simply set about showing how that is not true, and that there are people in the org who very much do feel that way.
AOC hasn’t “retreated” from socialist politics. She’s had to adapt and be pragmatic since getting elected to serve in federal office, unlike anyone in that so-called “liberation caucus”. They sound like a bunch of backseat drivers to me
DSA has an internal system of caucuses, which are largely ideologically based, and act as political parties within the organization.
There’s Socialist Majority which is the big reformist caucus. Reform and Revolution is the Trotskyist caucus. Red Star is Marxist-Leninist, Libertarian Socialist Caucus is Anarchist, etc.
Liberation are the Maoist caucus, and so they largely reject electoral engagements with politics, preferring to organize the internally colonized sections of the American working class through labor and tenant organizing, and the like. They don’t think taking congressional seats, even if DSA were to win all of them, would make socialism happen.
But the reason I chose to quote them in particular, is because they represent what is probably the left-most position in DSA, regarding AOC. While much of the “DSA left” (left here being relative. Even the rightmost caucuses are to the left of mainstream American politics) holds a similar position, opposing an AOC presidential run, or otherwise being skeptical of her, they would likely frame it differently.
Reed Star, for instance, would frame their AOC criticism, less as overt opportunism, and more as being strategically flawed, as the org tailing an individual for her popularity, rather than putting forward a candidate with the intent to lead and educate/radicalize the masses.
I could have been clearer. I am sure there are members of the DSA who oppose AOC for ideological reasons, but they have little in common with u/antifa_ceo, an account that exists, near as I can tell, solely to sow discord, dysfunction, and despair in leftist spaces. There are many such accounts on lemmy.ml, a site whose admin and mod team have a long history of claiming to be leftist while legitimizing dictators and censoring criticism of the same.
I realize you also have a .ml account, so I’ll clarify that not everyone on the site is this way. Most .ml accounts are just regular folks, and .ml was heavily promoted on reddit so it became one of the larger fediverse instances. But it is a haven for pro-Imperialist astroturfers and I think you would be well served to find a different server.
Just take the L. We don’t need a paragraph.
Also wrong.
AOC been a sell out for a bit. Cozying up with Schumer and shit
You guys really really love fascists winning, don’t you?
They could have worded it better but there is plenty to criticize. The left should always push the overton window and stop accepting sorta kinda left just because it’s not fascism.
I like her btw
But that’s how you push the overton window. Accept every slight improvement. If you only accept big improvement, and wait for everyone to be happy, you will never move the window at all.
That’s how the right is pushing it for years. They accept every single slightly more right position, and then go from there.
How is not accepting “sorta kinda left” not an improvement if the alternative is fascism? A leftist utopia will never materialize if we don’t accept steps inbetween. Just like fascism didn’t materialize overnight.
They could have worded it better
They should have worded it completely differently if so.
A lot of them apparently think that China is doing all the right things so, yeah.
Where are the Epstein files?
Ahhh, there we go. Incremental improvement is a sucker’s bet, so how’s “burn it all down” going so far?
what incremental improvement has AOC delivered in the past 8 years?
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Honey, I volunteered on her 2018 campaign, and was a member of all 3 NYC Brooklyn orgs over the years. I am well qualified to ask.
Now, do you have an answser?
