- cross-posted to:
- me_irl@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- me_irl@lemmy.world
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I prefer my, commas, to enhance the legibility, of the, sentence, rather than to simply act as interesting, accessories.
Ah, I thought she was calling her meat
into this; meat,
;:AM I FORGOTTEN?!
Unnecessary commas make me read things in Christopher Walkenās voice
I donāt think Jeffy gets punctuation
ITT: People not knowing about Nietzsche Family Circus.
TWICE!
Dang, Bill Keane got dark in his later years
It happens to the best of us, weāre slowly dying all our lives and itās the only certainty in existence; that weāll all eventually perish.
Kind of a downer.
Only if one identifies exclusively with oneās body.
Which most people more or less do.
Well, I consider my being to consist of more than my physical body but the entity āIā will cease to exist when I die.
Whatās the connection between your being and your āIā entity?
My complete being, the āIā is an amalgamation of my physical presence and sense of existence. Much like a braindead body and a brain in a jar are separate things, but the sum of the parts are bigger than the components.
I expect this amalgamation to break up when I die, whereas my body will rot and the āIā will no longer exist (this is a certainty), my sense of existence might continue to exist.
Indeed. The same sense of existence you have now, even.
Souls exist, and reincarnation is real. Or more specifically, a soul exists. A soul. Thereās just one. Itās just one soul bouncing back and forth across time and space, eventually looping back onto its own path after circling through every the life of every sentient being that is, was, or ever shall be. An infinite circle of consciousness spanning the entirety of physical existence.
Isnāt this a line from true detective?
Except nobody is doing the yanking.
If souls arenāt real, it makes our existence even stranger. Like two people rawdog one time and now thereās this conscious sentient being with hopes and desires and depression. That needs food water and shelter for 80 years
Also why is our existence so dystopian, we have untold wonders available to us and nearly free food, but itās like the constant ability to compare what we have with others makes us crazy. Weāve been granted nearly global telepathy and it makes us all go mad
I think I found where OP got all those extra commas. Must have stolen them from this poor poster.
_ No offense. Just playing_
Whatever do you mean commas are an important part of sentences and they are the best way to separate phrases to prevent run on sentences my commas have not been stolen they are safely locked up in my grammatoreum vault that is guarded by a particularly unchill poodle named Feathers who patrols the grounds most diligently and often can been seen chasing off would-be punctuation bandits.
Of course souls arenāt real. Whatās so strange about it? Zillions of bacteria are at this very moment also being brought into being as part of the great āmatter computationā driven by the Sun. Also worms, botflies, politicians, you name it.
we have this very nice expression in german called āder Geist in der Materieā which roughly translates to āthe spirit in the matterā which expresses the concept that even though some object is material, there is still a kind of spirit inside of it. Itās like the matter itself is alive and conscious. We can see this in animals. Itās a very interesting concept.
If souls arenāt real, it makes our existence even stranger. Like two people rawdog one time and now thereās this conscious sentient being with hopes and desires and depression. That needs food water and shelter for 80 years
You know what iāve been (jokingly) wondering about for a while now? Maybe souls arenāt real, maybe consciousness isnāt real, maybe itās all a big hoax sold to us by Big Church to sell more salvation.
Excuse me I donāt have dreams
You can have some of mine. They were weird even before the psychoactive drugs. Afterā¦ letās just say Iām glad I donāt believe in dreams having any symbolic meaning beyond sometimes vaguely resembling something you once thought about. Brain poop, if you will.
Iām offering you my brain poop.
Hahaha phones. Thats all, move along
Speak for yourself
yanking my hog lmao
Antinatalism is cringe (and also fashy)
Choosing not to reproduce because itās unethical to force more humans to live as indentured slaves under capitalism on this dying hellworldā¦ is basically the opposite of fascism?
That you also consider antinatalism cringe though makes me think you either just donāt understand what any of these words mean, or that youāre an Overton centrist whoās just one little push away from becoming/owning a trad wife and feeding your offspring into the meat grinder to make billionaires happy.
Iām an anarchist and a trans woman but ok
Antinatalism is ecofascist eugenicist bullshit
From one anarchist trans woman to another:
How do you figure you have the authority to force someone into existence? Like, for real. To me this feels like the most selfish act possible. I canāt see any reasons that would stand up to scrutiny to have children other than ācause I wannaā. And yes. Itās forcing them. Itās not āa giftā, since a gift can be declined.
oohhhhh woe is meeee i nEVeR AsKEd tO BE BorN good god thatās cringe, all edge no point. This is literally 12 year old shit. And yes, your liking of eugenics is completely transparent, you donāt want anyone like you to be allowed to reproduce. Thatās fascist as fuck
I know several new dads who would be absolutely livid at the thought of someone calling them āselfishā for what theyāre currently submitting themselves to XD
A lot of us had shitty parents and find it easy to transpose those traits onto all parents. But there at least as many parents out there for whom itās absolutely the largest sacrifice theyāve made in their entire lives. Itās them pouring all of their collected love, knowledge, and material means onto someone else so that they donāt leave this Earth having only taken from it.
And if their kids grow up anything like me, theyāll be grateful for that choice and happy to be alive.
Ok but this kind of doesnāt answer my questionā¦ Also to the point of ādonāt leave this Earth having only taken from itā yeah, itās even worse, cause now there is a whole new person that will also take from the earth.
And if their kids grow up anything like me, theyāll be grateful for that choice and happy to be alive.
And if they donāt, they might not be. Thatās kind of my point. A HUGE gamble like that is totally okay to take for yourself but not for someone else, without their consent.
You need to look some of those words up.
If you choose not to reproduce, thatās fine, regardless of your reasons. Itās no oneās business.
But explain to me how you pick and choose who can or āshouldā reproduce without sounding like a eugenics enthusiast
But explain to me how you pick and choose who can or āshouldā reproduce without sounding like a eugenics enthusiast
Well, no one should. Phew, that was easy.
This is like having a tantrum about vegans because you think vegans want to stop you from eating animal products because they think itās wrong.
Antinatalism is a personal philosophy, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. I have chosen not to procreate because my experiences have brought me to the conclusion that it is unethical.
You can go ahead and make more people or torture animals if you want, Iām not part of that. Neither the vegans nor the antinatalists can actually stop you, combined weāre probably only a few million worldwide. Weāre judging you for your choices, but thatās about it.
If you genuinely think someone is a bad person for having a kid, thatās not an ideology, thatās just sadboy edgelord bullshit. Reproduction is not fucking unethical and youāre a fucking weirdo if you think that, and I say that as someone who only wants to adopt and doesnāt want to bring another life into this world. āwaaaahhh humanity bad we need to go extinctā stfu ecofascist
I do neither of those things. Scroll through my comment history and find something else to judge me for, bud.
Is it some kind of psychosis? Like how do you just decide words mean something completely different and flat out keep refusing to listen, learn and change your view after numerous people politely keep pointing out the definitions youāve decided upon, are objectively wrong?
Good thing that has nothing to do with antinatalism then.
It literally does, you think people like you shouldnāt get to reproduce bc youāre a sad edgelord. Explain how thatās not eugenics
Again, antinatalism has nothing to do with telling people what to do.
Again, if itās your personal choice to not reproduce, thatās totally fine, and I wonāt try to convince you otherwise.
As soon as you start telling other people though that producing offspring is inherently unethical and theyāre a bad, selfish person for making that decision, youāre no different than the so-called āpro-lifeā groups, telling people that theyāre morally flawed and the cause of all the problems in the world because you donāt agree with the choice they made about their reproductive system.
The options with antinatalism are:
- No one reproduces and humans go extinct.
- Someone has to make a decision regarding who can āethicallyā reproduce to maintain some stable population level.
Option 1 is unacceptable to me because it means giving up, and at that point we might as well nuke everything to speed up the process of ending the suffering that is life. And if thatās the outlook you have, I genuinely feel bad for you.
Option 2 is unacceptable because ā surprise surprise ā thatās just eugenics dressed up as caring about the environment or something. And when you and your loved ones are part of groups that have historically been forcibly sterilized at best and sent to death camps at worst, you tend to have a negative opinion about any philosophy that ultimately labels some groups as unworthy of existing.
Option 1 is unacceptable to me because it means giving up, and at that point we might as well nuke everything to speed up the process of ending the suffering that is life. And if thatās the outlook you have, I genuinely feel bad for you.
The more extreme form of antinatalism, efilism, actually advocates for sterilizing the earth to prevent animal suffering as well.
Option 1 being āunacceptableā to you is scary und giving me the ick. What happens in your world when people donāt want kids anymore? Forced breeding programs?
You seem extremely confused.
Antinatalism has precisely nothing to do with preventing people from procreating.
@I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world your comments donāt show up on the blahaj end, sorry I didnāt see them until now.
No one āshouldā reproduce. Until every child can be guaranteed a home, food, safety, and a genuine chance to succeed in the future
I can understand that argument a lot more than the ones that come across as very defeatist and nihilistic, thank you.
I already didnāt like it, but youāve talked me into liking it even less. Nevermind the angry arrow clickers.
What specifically donāt you like about it?
thank you
ā¦if projected at others (I feel like thatās the missing qualifier from your statement)
Thereās various reasons for antinatalism IMO, and the two biggest ones are because people think they cannot (and never will be able to) afford children, and also because they recognize the suffering the children would go through.
Like, realistically, your children inherit a lot of your traits, and if youāre suffering in this world, what reason is there to believe that it will be different for your (hypothetical) children?
And also having children is vastly expensive. It costs $100K dollars upwards just to raise them to puberty, and thatās optimistic estimates assuming no future inflation. And then there is the whole uncertainty of the future labor market. So, would you rather spend that money to bring another suffering being into this world, or would you rather say āfuck itā and enjoy your own time on this planet instead?
āI canāt afford children, therefore nobody should get to have childrenā how the fuck do you say that and not realize how cartoonishly selfish and authoritarian that is
Iām confused. Please bear with me hereā¦
Iāve resonated with antinatalism in the past and hadnāt clicked on to the deeper resentment underneath it, but I can see how itās cringe.
If only ever seen it as a personal choice however, so couldnāt see the fascist angle. Do people really use it as a guise for eugenics? Thatās proper mental! (and probably racism, etc)
Do people really use it as a guise for eugenics?
I mean, fascists will use anything that advances their agenda
Yeah, thatās fair. The bad faith actors will use any lever
only ever seen it as a personal choice
Some people say that it is unethical to have children or imply, rather than personal choice, that it is the morally correct choice. For example: the image in this post which describes having children as great hubris.
If the personal choice is only based on finances, I wouldnāt really call it antinatalism. Antinatalism is based on resentment.I think the fascist angle comes from its proximity to ecofascism ie āwe should kill people because humans are the problemā. I donāt see antinatalism as necessarily fascist, but itās absolutely inspired by the same desperate misanthropic hopelessness that hangs over heads like poisonous clouds. Just a useless philosophy that cannot make the world any better and imagines doing so as impossible.
Thesis this is teasing it out for me.
I can see thereās an element of hubris or selfishness behind the idea of having children (I do wish it wasnāt so popular!), but even the moral stuff is still a stretch to project ones feelings onto anotherās situation - although I can see that happens all the time, and I find it disgusting (ex-Christian, anything about projected beliefs sets me offā¦)
Iāve absolutely had that desperate misanthropic helplessness - wonderful words!! Iām working on dismantling the thinking that leads to poison clouds having raised itās all my own creation (oops!), so thank you, youāve helped me process my recent past quite rapidly!
K
- Emotionally-founded movement masquerading as ethically-founded
- Driven primarily by resentment
- Distinctly Malthusian
- Condemns a fundamental process of biological life
- Primarily advocates abandoning the world before improving it
- Adherents frequently direct their anger at mostly non-political actors
Yeah itās disturbing that youāre getting so many downvotes simply for being bold in your stance here. I mean I do understand whyā¦ There are strong and often unexamined emotions at play here. But itās still disturbing. Antinatalism isnāt eugenics but it sits right next to eugenics in a logical process. Itās positions on ecology and itās emotional social resentment place it on a pipeline to fascism.
Is āantinatalismā some kind of organized movement or something? Because I think the reason that theyāre getting downvotes is because it comes off as saying āyour personal choice to not have kids makes you a eugenicist and a Nazi, kids are the best thing to ever happen to you in life and everybody wants them, even if they say they donāt.ā It certainly came off that way to me, but Iāve never heard the term before. I just donāt want to bring another life into this hellhole of a country on this burning world that we continue to do nothing to fix.
I donāt think thereās some central antinatalist org yet, but there are smaller organized groups. I first encountered the whole philosophy when a group called Stop Having Kids put up billboards and tabled on the street here in Portland.
I think your stance on childbirth is fine, itās the same as mine. Itās a decision for ourselves that we donāt feel weāre prepared to equip a new human to operate in the world when itās in this state. But take our stance and make it an organization, if itās anything more than a support organization for people whoāve already made that choice then itās going to be about telling others to not have children too, and arguing that theyāre doing an ethical wrong by having kids.
@EldritchFeminity @infinitesunrise Iām not sure if itās organized, but it does describe a specific school of thought that isnāt just āI donāt personally want to have kids.ā Antinatalists generally believe that itās unethical for anyone to reproduce. The core argument is usually that since you canāt consent to being born, you canāt ethically impose it on someone against their will. It tends to go hand-in-hand with misanthropic ideas such as that humans are destructive to the planet/fundamentally cruel or that life in general just sucks. Ultimately, the thesis is that humans should extinct ourselves. Given the current state of the world, itās gained some traction amongst groups of people trapped deep in despair right now. (Which, letās be real - there are a lot of on Lemmy)
Exactly. I donāt have ideological bases for my personal preferences, which I then promulgate to strangers online.
Have your heard of Cappucinism? A frothy espresso drink is the only kind of coffee to take with breakfast! I spend so much of my time telling others that I barely have time to wazz up the milk! Huaaagh I canāt stand Americanists, you bitter assholes are a crime against humanity. Might as well be intermittent fasters and skip the whole meal!
I get that hope is scarce these days, but hope is always a leap of faith. The point isnāt to make the jump, the point is to jump at all.
Thanks, this was useful - I hadnt unpacked this before
I actually meant to reply to the comment above you but Iām just as happy to reply to you! So I guess to add regarding what you asked about people using it as a guise for eugenics, I actually donāt think antinatalists are doing that, generally. Antinatalists arenāt villains, and I think they mostly mean well. They just have a lot of resentment, absent a fully matured leftist framework to guide those emotions into socially healthy advocacy. Which makes them sitting ducks for any actual villains looking for a demographic to coopt.
Antinatalists arenāt villains, and I think they mostly mean well. They just have a lot of resentment, absent a fully matured leftist framework to guide those emotions into socially healthy advocacy. Which makes them sitting ducks for any actual villains looking for a demographic to coopt.
Lmao, yes of course, the folks whoāve abandoned their egos and taken a moral stance not to procreate, they are the ones who are the sitting ducks here.
Clearly anyone who thinks differently from you just doesnāt have a mature leftist framework to guide their emotions.
And youāre so opinionated and sure of yourself about this too, almost like you enjoy making yourself out to be the educated authority on this. What a true sign of a fully matured leftist framework that is unable to be pandered to or manipulated.
Please, tell us more of your takes on things you donāt understand, itās just so woke and liberal of you to be this smarmy about a minority political philosophy youāre not part of.
