Saying they aren’t people denies the evil that humans are capable. By calling bad people inhuman, it allows us to forget that we are able to choose evil.
Absolutely this. This is crucial to resisting fascism in its various forms: dehumanising is an extremely dangerous slope and used to prepare people to accept unacceptable things.
TERFs are people. Nazis are people. Murderers and rapists are people. Fans of Asmongold are people.
It may be hard to accept, and tempting to dehumanise, but please don’t.
Exactly. This will sounds flippant, but it’s the same thing when people debate over “what is art” as if something has to be good in order to be considered art.
Likewise, you don’t need to be good to be considered a person. In fact there is nothing you could do that could rob you of your personhood in my eyes. It’s inalienable. That doesn’t mean every person is good or should be treated the same way.
I think the nuance is that Nazis ought to be acknowledged as being people, but not afforded any of the respects and graces the Nazis themselves deny others.
No you don’t. You treat people the way you can get away with.
If an ICE agent bumped into you on the street tomorrow, you’d tip your fucking hat and keep your eyes down, because you were terrified of what he’d do to you if you didn’t.
Nazis are vermin that should be exterminated.
That’s a Based Cool Chad thing to say from behind an anonymous internet account on Lemmy Safe Spaces, right? Very cool to whisper it into a hole in the ground so you can feel tough.
But will you wave a fucking banner with that shit in front of an ICE facility and see what happens next? Will you point a gun at any of these guys?
Nah they decided they don’t want to be people. They see themselves as better. Not better people, just better. Therefore they aren’t people, by their own admission.
They hate us for existing, we hate them for the harm they cause others. We are not the same.
And for all the individuals clutching their pearls over my comment please realize that I know what I said is right because when none Nazies (aka Antifa) are in charge literal Nazies are not being rounded up and sent to gas chambers! Could we say the same of the Nazies were in charge?!
I don’t want Nazies dead. But they are not people.
The fact that you’re even questioning that the USSR defeated Nazism proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. 80% of dead Nazi soldiers were thanks to the eastern front. 25 million Soviet lives were eliminated in the struggle against fascism.
I’m from one of the countries that suffered massive atrocities under the bastards
Oh no, the atrocities of universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, industrialization, guaranteed employment and the abolishment of homelessness. What a horrifying regime. Eastern Europe is so much better now that capitalism returned and you have wars again. I bet my ass your childhood was after 1990 and you’re just repeating capitalist anticommunist propaganda.
I suppose you don’t understand the difference between war and peace?
There is no peace with Nazis, they only understand genocide and invasion.
the bullshit you’re saying about russians
I didn’t say the word “Russians” in my previous comment. I mentioned the USSR being the reason why Nazis didn’t exterminate your ethnicity, but the USSR was a plurinational state composed of many ethnicities. Many Ukrainians, Belarusians, Uzbeki, Kazakh, and many of the nationalities of Russia such as Bashkir, Slavic Russians or Mari gave their lives defending your family from Nazism. Have some respect for all the brave soldiers who fought so that you can spew bullshit online today.
Saving Eastern Europe from Nazi extermination is as bad as universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, the elimination of unemployment, universal right to housing and abolition of homelessness, and the doubling of life expectancy from the Tsarist Empire to 1960.
The fact that you’re even questioning that the USSR defeated Nazism proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. 80% of dead Nazi soldiers were thanks to the eastern front. 25 million Soviet lives were eliminated in the struggle against fascism.
Buddy, who supplied the half the rifles and 90% of ammo that the ruskies used on the Eastern Front? Who supplied the fuel, trucks and tires? Who supplied the food, and even the fucking uniforms?
And who opened the second front, forcing Nazis to divide and defend on two sides, allowing USSR to actually start pushing back?
Oh no, the atrocities of universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, industrialization, guaranteed employment and the abolishment of homelessness
You mean the atrocities of political purges, the elimination of intelligentsia and military officers, the russification, the brainwashing, the poverty, the mismanagement, the hunger and millions dead?
There is no peace with Nazis, they only understand genocide and invasion.
You know what? Looking at russia right now, I retract my previous statement and have to agree with you here.
I didn’t say the word “Russians” in my previous comment. I mentioned the USSR
USSR == russia, but slightly larger, but relatively the same on the “shit-stain of the world” scale.
Have some respect for all the brave soldiers who fought so that you can spew bullshit online today
I have respect to the soldiers who fought. I don’t have respect to those that raped and pillaged the entire way to Berlin. Unfortunately, the first group was considerably smaller than the second.
Buddy, who supplied the half the rifles and 90% of ammo that the ruskies used on the Eastern Front?
Why are you so obsessed with Russians and invisibilizing the heroic contribution of the rest of ethnicities? Are you an anti-Ukrainian nazi? Also, you’re literally making up the numbers, the most manufactured and used tank in WW2 was the Soviet T-34. The contributions by the USA were measurable and necessary and they deserve the appropriate praise, but you’re denying history by saying the soviets didnt win the war.
allowing USSR to actually start pushing back?
Wrong. The victory in Stalingrad and the pushing of Nazis to the west happened well before the opening of the western front by the USA. You’re literally lying here.
You mean the atrocities of political purges, the elimination of intelligentsia and military officers
Oh no, the poor military officers of (presumably Poland), they were just good guys when they happily invaded Ukraine and Belarus in 1918 and when they annexed Czechoslovakia with the Nazis.
the russification
Bullshit. Everyone in Uzbekistan speaks Uzbek, people in Mari El studied in Mari, people in Poland studied in Polish, people in Lithuania studied in Lithuanian, as proven by the fact that those are still the primary languages and cultures in their respective regions (except possibly Mari because the capitalist Russian Federation doesn’t respect multi ethnicity). Stop making up shit. If you’re so concerned with the assimilation of peoples, go open a campaign for the rights of Occitanian people, they had 1+mn speakers in 1920 and they’re barely 100k nowadays. THAT’S what cultural assimilation looks like.
the hunger and millions dead
Life expectancy skyrocketed under Soviet policy. Life expectancy was of 27 fucking years when the Soviets got into power, and by 1960, it was above 60 years old. The policy of rapid industrialization and land collectivization literally saved millions of lives. Again, if you care so much about the “millions of deaths” in Eastern Europe, why don’t you complain about the millions of deaths from capitalist restoration? Millions died in the Eastern Block when capitalism arrived: defunding of healthcare, hunger, drug abuse, unemployment, alcoholism, suicide and violent crime were the norm all over Eastern Europe since 1990. Blame fucking capitalism for what it did.
USSR == russia
You’re literally a Ukrainian-hating nationalist. Gorbachev was Ukrainian and so was Brezhnev, the presidents for the longest time in the Soviet Union were Ukrainian.
I don’t have respect to those that raped and pillaged the entire way to Berlin
Literal Nazi propaganda. Seeing how you hate Ukrainians and how you’re spewing Nazi bullshit, I have no choice but to conclude you’re a polish Nazi. I’m surprised you’re not siding with Putin, he’s killing hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians in the name of capitalism.
I’m not going to respond to you anymore because I dont debate Nazis. Have fun responding to me and malding
Well I mean the arrest and put into jail and see if there is possible rehabilitation, if not let them rot in the jail cell with their nazi beliefs if they want to stay true to them. Time is the best punishment for severe crimes when rehabilitation is not taken.
I mean putting Nazis in reeducation camps compulsorily. The problem is that normally, Nazis tend to get propped into power by capitalists, and the historical way to remove them from power is through socialist revolution.
There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchyfascism.
You cannot discount how many modern American fascists are pulled from the ranks of the unemployable post-industrial underclass. How many people are signing up for ICE strictly for a paycheck? How many signed up for the National Guard or enlisted in our imperial wars overseas for the GI benefits? How many people could have been EMS or construction workers or ag workers with a paycheck that covered cost of living or white collar schlubs doing email jobs, but are instead getting handed tasers and zip ties and an unlimited license to do violence to their neighbors?
They’re people. They’re all people. But for the grace of god, you too could be pulling a turtleneck over your nose and kicking a woman’s teeth in while she screaming “don’t take my baby”, because you’ve gone through the two weeks of Clockwork Orange training that turns unemployed middle aged men into monsters of the state.
Nazies aren’t people.
Sadly I have to disagree. They are living people. Do they deserve to be living? No. But they are still living entities which we classify as people.
Fuck Nazis though. They should die.
Saying they aren’t people denies the evil that humans are capable. By calling bad people inhuman, it allows us to forget that we are able to choose evil.
All people are people. Dehumanizing someone is a great technique for authoritarian regimes, but should be resisted by everyone else.
Dehumanizing:
I wonder if anyone’s done the math on the grip strength necessary to snap a rifle stock with your bare hands
Not just hands, he’s using his knee to break it.
Absolutely this. This is crucial to resisting fascism in its various forms: dehumanising is an extremely dangerous slope and used to prepare people to accept unacceptable things.
TERFs are people. Nazis are people. Murderers and rapists are people. Fans of Asmongold are people.
It may be hard to accept, and tempting to dehumanise, but please don’t.
Exactly. This will sounds flippant, but it’s the same thing when people debate over “what is art” as if something has to be good in order to be considered art.
Likewise, you don’t need to be good to be considered a person. In fact there is nothing you could do that could rob you of your personhood in my eyes. It’s inalienable. That doesn’t mean every person is good or should be treated the same way.
Ahahahaah love the “Fans of Asmongold” jab
I treat people the way they treat other people.
If Nazis say a group of people aren’t people, then Nazis aren’t people.
Nazis are vermin that should be exterminated. A cancer on humanity that should be cut out with a big knife.
And if they don’t like that, then they should change their mentality.
I think the nuance is that Nazis ought to be acknowledged as being people, but not afforded any of the respects and graces the Nazis themselves deny others.
No you don’t. You treat people the way you can get away with.
If an ICE agent bumped into you on the street tomorrow, you’d tip your fucking hat and keep your eyes down, because you were terrified of what he’d do to you if you didn’t.
That’s a Based Cool Chad thing to say from behind an anonymous internet account on Lemmy Safe Spaces, right? Very cool to whisper it into a hole in the ground so you can feel tough.
But will you wave a fucking banner with that shit in front of an ICE facility and see what happens next? Will you point a gun at any of these guys?
Nah they decided they don’t want to be people. They see themselves as better. Not better people, just better. Therefore they aren’t people, by their own admission.
They hate us for existing, we hate them for the harm they cause others. We are not the same.
And for all the individuals clutching their pearls over my comment please realize that I know what I said is right because when none Nazies (aka Antifa) are in charge literal Nazies are not being rounded up and sent to gas chambers! Could we say the same of the Nazies were in charge?!
I don’t want Nazies dead. But they are not people.
I think you’ve got it backwards, friend! They are people, just awful people who need to be stopped.
Yea nah, if somebody considers that I should be killed because race, or whatever else, they are not human to me.
I will not be held to a high standard of humanity by somebody that has no standard in respect to me.
Nazis are people who need to be forcibly reeducated, and the only way to get there historically is through violence.
All fundamentalists should be reeducated.
Reeducation through violence is the methodology of totalitarian regimes, like the Third Reich, the USSR/russia, or China.
Good luck debating Nazis. The USSR famously defeated them, BTW, you can thank them for being alive today if you’re European.
I suppose you decry the violence that the USA exerted on Nazi Germany?
Who said anything about debating?
LOL, good one! :D
I’m from one of the countries that suffered massive atrocities under the bastards.
I suppose you don’t understand the difference between war and peace? Actually makes sense considering the bullshit you’re saying about russians…
The fact that you’re even questioning that the USSR defeated Nazism proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. 80% of dead Nazi soldiers were thanks to the eastern front. 25 million Soviet lives were eliminated in the struggle against fascism.
Oh no, the atrocities of universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, industrialization, guaranteed employment and the abolishment of homelessness. What a horrifying regime. Eastern Europe is so much better now that capitalism returned and you have wars again. I bet my ass your childhood was after 1990 and you’re just repeating capitalist anticommunist propaganda.
There is no peace with Nazis, they only understand genocide and invasion.
I didn’t say the word “Russians” in my previous comment. I mentioned the USSR being the reason why Nazis didn’t exterminate your ethnicity, but the USSR was a plurinational state composed of many ethnicities. Many Ukrainians, Belarusians, Uzbeki, Kazakh, and many of the nationalities of Russia such as Bashkir, Slavic Russians or Mari gave their lives defending your family from Nazism. Have some respect for all the brave soldiers who fought so that you can spew bullshit online today.
Did USSR help defeat Nazi Germany? Yes. Were USSR just as bad? Oh, most definitely yes.
Saving Eastern Europe from Nazi extermination is as bad as universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, the elimination of unemployment, universal right to housing and abolition of homelessness, and the doubling of life expectancy from the Tsarist Empire to 1960.
Buddy, who supplied the half the rifles and 90% of ammo that the ruskies used on the Eastern Front? Who supplied the fuel, trucks and tires? Who supplied the food, and even the fucking uniforms?
And who opened the second front, forcing Nazis to divide and defend on two sides, allowing USSR to actually start pushing back?
You mean the atrocities of political purges, the elimination of intelligentsia and military officers, the russification, the brainwashing, the poverty, the mismanagement, the hunger and millions dead?
You know what? Looking at russia right now, I retract my previous statement and have to agree with you here.
USSR == russia, but slightly larger, but relatively the same on the “shit-stain of the world” scale.
I have respect to the soldiers who fought. I don’t have respect to those that raped and pillaged the entire way to Berlin. Unfortunately, the first group was considerably smaller than the second.
Why are you so obsessed with Russians and invisibilizing the heroic contribution of the rest of ethnicities? Are you an anti-Ukrainian nazi? Also, you’re literally making up the numbers, the most manufactured and used tank in WW2 was the Soviet T-34. The contributions by the USA were measurable and necessary and they deserve the appropriate praise, but you’re denying history by saying the soviets didnt win the war.
Wrong. The victory in Stalingrad and the pushing of Nazis to the west happened well before the opening of the western front by the USA. You’re literally lying here.
Oh no, the poor military officers of (presumably Poland), they were just good guys when they happily invaded Ukraine and Belarus in 1918 and when they annexed Czechoslovakia with the Nazis.
Bullshit. Everyone in Uzbekistan speaks Uzbek, people in Mari El studied in Mari, people in Poland studied in Polish, people in Lithuania studied in Lithuanian, as proven by the fact that those are still the primary languages and cultures in their respective regions (except possibly Mari because the capitalist Russian Federation doesn’t respect multi ethnicity). Stop making up shit. If you’re so concerned with the assimilation of peoples, go open a campaign for the rights of Occitanian people, they had 1+mn speakers in 1920 and they’re barely 100k nowadays. THAT’S what cultural assimilation looks like.
Life expectancy skyrocketed under Soviet policy. Life expectancy was of 27 fucking years when the Soviets got into power, and by 1960, it was above 60 years old. The policy of rapid industrialization and land collectivization literally saved millions of lives. Again, if you care so much about the “millions of deaths” in Eastern Europe, why don’t you complain about the millions of deaths from capitalist restoration? Millions died in the Eastern Block when capitalism arrived: defunding of healthcare, hunger, drug abuse, unemployment, alcoholism, suicide and violent crime were the norm all over Eastern Europe since 1990. Blame fucking capitalism for what it did.
You’re literally a Ukrainian-hating nationalist. Gorbachev was Ukrainian and so was Brezhnev, the presidents for the longest time in the Soviet Union were Ukrainian.
Literal Nazi propaganda. Seeing how you hate Ukrainians and how you’re spewing Nazi bullshit, I have no choice but to conclude you’re a polish Nazi. I’m surprised you’re not siding with Putin, he’s killing hundreds of thousands of Russians and Ukrainians in the name of capitalism.
I’m not going to respond to you anymore because I dont debate Nazis. Have fun responding to me and malding
ok china we get it, your “re-education” camps work well for your brainwashing
id rather see them rehabilitated in jail, what you want is no different than what nazis do.
What exactly did you think I meant by “forcibly reeducated” if not rehabilitated in prison?
what do you mean by forcibly
What do you mean by jail? Are you imagining like some voluntary jail where you check in and out as you please?
Sorry, I’m not trying to be glib, but maybe we just have different understandings on the word “force”. You can’t send someone to jail without force.
Well I mean the arrest and put into jail and see if there is possible rehabilitation, if not let them rot in the jail cell with their nazi beliefs if they want to stay true to them. Time is the best punishment for severe crimes when rehabilitation is not taken.
I mean putting Nazis in reeducation camps compulsorily. The problem is that normally, Nazis tend to get propped into power by capitalists, and the historical way to remove them from power is through socialist revolution.
There are only nine meals between mankind and
anarchyfascism.You cannot discount how many modern American fascists are pulled from the ranks of the unemployable post-industrial underclass. How many people are signing up for ICE strictly for a paycheck? How many signed up for the National Guard or enlisted in our imperial wars overseas for the GI benefits? How many people could have been EMS or construction workers or ag workers with a paycheck that covered cost of living or white collar schlubs doing email jobs, but are instead getting handed tasers and zip ties and an unlimited license to do violence to their neighbors?
They’re people. They’re all people. But for the grace of god, you too could be pulling a turtleneck over your nose and kicking a woman’s teeth in while she screaming “don’t take my baby”, because you’ve gone through the two weeks of Clockwork Orange training that turns unemployed middle aged men into monsters of the state.
What an extremely Nazi thing to say…
Perfectly fine Marxist, anarchist, and liberal rhetoric alike in the lead up to the Second Anti-Fascist War.