I think we’re talking two different things. I’m not saying to buy a giant handgun and wait for robbers to come into your house so you can blast them away.
I’ve known people who fantasize about that. They are gross.
What I’m saying is that the police in the United States have a history of shooting dogs, so they do absolutely nothing for you anti-fascist security. They would absolutely help against theft and robbery because most robbers want to be quick and quiet. Police don’t care.
But so a gun doesn’t help either. It just means they call SWAT and take you down with superior numbers and firepower, doesn’t it?
The only real place where a gun helps is in an actual civil war, or possibly against a single non-governmental bad guy (with risk of being shot yourself as well).
I have a dog. I’m also surrounded by fascists in the deep south. I’m keeping guns because I’d rather live than die for some abstract moral point you’re trying to make about how we should live in a fantasy land where people in fascists states don’t need guns.
What you mean, you don’t want your tombstone to read “Died by blunt-force trauma from an unregulated militia sweeping homes, but at least kept to true to civility and good manners, and that’s what matters most.”?
Haha just kidding, you won’t get a tombstone, they have ovens for that.
What exactly do you think we’re arming to defend against? Roving bands of goblins? Crackheads? Do you even read the news? Do you understand politics at all and the consequences? Do you KNOW that nations have fallen to authoritarians in the past, or does that seem like more “nothing ever happens” daydreaming and worldbuilding?
If that’s how you think this works, you’re the one with the vision of some video game firefight. We are arming up as a message, not because we think we will win against a military force. But so that if electoral politics fails, we have power to back up our resistance. “Door-to-door meat grinder” is the worst five words any military leader wants to hear and we need to make that becomes the standard our political currency is built on.
The whole fucking reason that the hardline conservatives in the US have taken so goddamn much ground and got their clown messiah elected is exactly because they understand we don’t live in a star-trek utopia and have embraced POWER to back up their demands, they carry the flag and own guns and declare their willingness to fight for the things they want.
It’s not about “defeating the military” it’s the knowledge that when they come for you, you will take as many of them with you and hopefully make it too damaging to them to continue the plan so that your neighbor has a chance. It’s about protecting each other through sacrifice.
What are YOU doing? Asking for civil discourse? What era do you think we’re entering? They are literally making databases of people critical of the regime. Get your head out of your ass and understand that people braver than you are actually willing to fight and die for the same things you want, so you get to decide what role you play in getting there.
that is a stupid reply, I’m not engaging anymore and won’t see another brain-dead reply. I hope you never have to worry about this and would kindly prefer you keep your stupid-hole closed when adults are talking about these matters.
10,000 dogs a year are shot and killed by police on routine duty. That’s just what we can estimate based on what we know. Your dogs are not going to protect you from the actual threats we may face as the US continues to decline.
In fact, if you own dogs and care about them at all, it’s HIGHLY important that you understand if you let a cop inside your house they may just fire a round into your beloved canine family member’s head without warning or explanation and you will have ZERO recourse. They are awful people who want to kill. It’s not a meme.
By that logic, a gun won’t either. Many gun owners are shot by police. If you shoot back at an unlawful entrance, they just bring more. They don’t really care. Power disparity is too great already.
I agree we need electoral politics and we need community action, but tell me what you’re going to do if that fails.
Seriously, what do you do when it fails and the violence spreads, and they start kicking down doors. What international law-enforcement do you think exists out there? How sheltered and comfortable is your life that you think “that can’t happen here?” Answer me.
Because a lot of shit that people said will “never happen here” is fucking happening here RIGHT NOW.
The fight was lost in the Supreme Court. 42 USC §1988 was explicitly set up to grant civil rights attorneys fees if they won their claim (and it costs a lot to prosecute a civil rights claim). But lawyers and firms would accept winnable civil rights cases on the basis that they would eventually get paid. That came to a halt in 2001 in 532 US 598, decided on May 2001, which talked about the rights of the “prevailing party” to be paid. In function, it killed civil rights litigation.
The police shooting people because they have or might have guns is a clear violation of the 2nd amendment right to carry. (ACLU never got involved because they don’t take 2nd amendment cases).
“Winning” requires multiple fronts, from civil resistance and disobedience, to openly carrying protests, to voting, to boycotts, to lawsuits, to just simply speaking out when something isn’t right. And proposing alternative solutions.
I don’t see how the weapons will be useful honestly. Iran has a very well armed military and they’re almost totally powerless before the US military. Military conflict is perhaps the singular thing fascists are best at. I’d rather attack my enemies where they are weak instead of where they are strong.
I mean I’m not opposed to people being armed but it really should be viewed as a last resort to hurt your enemies as much as possible before you’re totally wiped out rather than a realistic path to political change.
I know that the second a gun is brought into a house the members of the household are significantly more likely to be shot. I believe it’s because of the number of gun related suicides as well as the risk of a negligent discharge.
This is true, but in a vacuum in a life-threatening situation a gun is better than a dog for defending yourself. And also does not require you to intentionally put an innocent creature in harm’s way. And also does not require nearly as much upkeep as a dog.
But you are correct, the presence of a gun does statically increase your risk of being shot. And that is something worth considering.
Edit: and furthermore if you buy a guard dog, your risk of being mauled by a dog will likewise go up.
A claw hammer would be a better option than a gun. Why does everyone assume that a gun would be the best thing to defend yourself with in all situations.
Because if roving death squads knock on your door to haul you off to one of the many new, huge concentration camps they’re building, they will think twice if you have a shotgun pointed at your door, not so much if you have a fukkin hammer pointed at the door.
I am speaking as someone who taught self defense and martial arts for many years.
I can grab it at a moments notice as it can safely be left out, you don’t have to load it or aim it so using it is fast and simple. If its my home they’re invading I know where to hide. I trust my ability to swing and hit someone in a panic far more than I do my ability to handle a gun under the same pressure. Its just going to be easier and more reliable to hit someones head with a hammer than it will be to shoot them.
Unlike you, I actually train with my gun so we have very different concerns when under pressure. Mine relate more to not getting killed to make some kind of moral stand about how guns are bad in all contexts.
Brother I aint said shit about how I feel about gun ownership, you read into that. I’m just pointing out that I really do think a claw hammer is just an overall more utilitarian self defense weapon.
Okay fair enough. I would agree it’s definitely better than something unwieldy like an AR, but personally I’d rather have a handgun than a hammer. If someone’s breaking into my house and actively snooping around such that simply hiding and waiting for them to leave isn’t going to keep me safe, then there’s an above normal (but probably not strictly likely) chance that they’re on some kind of stimulant. A hammer may or may not put them down. A few hollow points tearing through their chest cavity probably will. Hammer definitely isn’t bad, but I personally think the odds are stronger with a handgun.
Honestly, I wouldn’t leave hammers lying around where kids could get to them any more than guns. The hammer will be less deadly, sure, but a dumb kid will still cause a lot of damage with it.
you don’t have to load it
True
or aim it
False, lol. You out there protecting yourself with unaimed hammer swings?
I trust my ability to swing and hit someone in a panic far more than I do my ability to handle a gun under the same pressure.
The only advantage I agree with is the ability to leave a hammer out versus a gun, and that’s only in cases of having small children at home. If your gun is for self-defense, it would make more sense to keep it loaded and easily accessible.
I have to say it’s a very strange stance to prefer to defend yourself within arm’s reach of an assailant versus at a distance. I think you’re also giving yourself a lot of credit when you say you’d be more confident swinging a hammer with enough accuracy and strength to incapacitate someone while panicking. Better hope you get them in one swing.
Maybe its just because I’ve been in a lot of dog fights, but if someone close to you swings something heavy, i think most people would drop the gun to try stopping it. However it is sooo situational.
A dog is much better protection than a gun.
Dogs get shot.
Life isn’t a video game.
Ask a real world security professional and they’ll tell you to get a dog.
A gun salesman will tell you that if you buy a gun you automatically become Annie Oakley
I think we’re talking two different things. I’m not saying to buy a giant handgun and wait for robbers to come into your house so you can blast them away.
I’ve known people who fantasize about that. They are gross.
What I’m saying is that the police in the United States have a history of shooting dogs, so they do absolutely nothing for you anti-fascist security. They would absolutely help against theft and robbery because most robbers want to be quick and quiet. Police don’t care.
But so a gun doesn’t help either. It just means they call SWAT and take you down with superior numbers and firepower, doesn’t it?
The only real place where a gun helps is in an actual civil war, or possibly against a single non-governmental bad guy (with risk of being shot yourself as well).
I have a dog. I’m also surrounded by fascists in the deep south. I’m keeping guns because I’d rather live than die for some abstract moral point you’re trying to make about how we should live in a fantasy land where people in fascists states don’t need guns.
What you mean, you don’t want your tombstone to read “Died by blunt-force trauma from an unregulated militia sweeping homes, but at least kept to true to civility and good manners, and that’s what matters most.”?
Haha just kidding, you won’t get a tombstone, they have ovens for that.
No they will fucking not.
I am a (former) real world security professional.
And I’ll say that a gun is much easier to carry around with you than a dog.
I taught my gun to walk, now I don’t have to carry it anymore :D
Good boy!
What exactly do you think we’re arming to defend against? Roving bands of goblins? Crackheads? Do you even read the news? Do you understand politics at all and the consequences? Do you KNOW that nations have fallen to authoritarians in the past, or does that seem like more “nothing ever happens” daydreaming and worldbuilding?
Look up MOVE.
Philadelphia police bombed a house in the middle of the city.
If it comes to an armed conflict, I really doubt that the folks who couldn’t get Bernie nominated are going to win a firefight.
Stop living in videogame land.
If that’s how you think this works, you’re the one with the vision of some video game firefight. We are arming up as a message, not because we think we will win against a military force. But so that if electoral politics fails, we have power to back up our resistance. “Door-to-door meat grinder” is the worst five words any military leader wants to hear and we need to make that becomes the standard our political currency is built on.
The whole fucking reason that the hardline conservatives in the US have taken so goddamn much ground and got their clown messiah elected is exactly because they understand we don’t live in a star-trek utopia and have embraced POWER to back up their demands, they carry the flag and own guns and declare their willingness to fight for the things they want.
It’s not about “defeating the military” it’s the knowledge that when they come for you, you will take as many of them with you and hopefully make it too damaging to them to continue the plan so that your neighbor has a chance. It’s about protecting each other through sacrifice.
What are YOU doing? Asking for civil discourse? What era do you think we’re entering? They are literally making databases of people critical of the regime. Get your head out of your ass and understand that people braver than you are actually willing to fight and die for the same things you want, so you get to decide what role you play in getting there.
Nothing your wrote makes me think you could handle an actual gunfight.
that is a stupid reply, I’m not engaging anymore and won’t see another brain-dead reply. I hope you never have to worry about this and would kindly prefer you keep your stupid-hole closed when adults are talking about these matters.
Nothing you wrote makes me think you could handle a face to face discussion
So what’s your plan? Just give in?
“I think we should run into the cannon’s mouth and choke the enemy with our dead.”
“That sounds like an awful plan.”
“So what’s your plan, just give in??”
We don’t know that. It might be, and unfortunately I think who ever is playing has gotten bored.
10,000 dogs a year are shot and killed by police on routine duty. That’s just what we can estimate based on what we know. Your dogs are not going to protect you from the actual threats we may face as the US continues to decline.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0016718520300440#%3A~%3Atext=Such+lack+of+transparency+has+led+to%2CMatthews%2C+a+Justice+Department+official+(Griffith%2C+2014).
https://trace.tennessee.edu/entities/publication/d303db7c-80cc-4a6a-83c5-fd19be3d33ac
In fact, if you own dogs and care about them at all, it’s HIGHLY important that you understand if you let a cop inside your house they may just fire a round into your beloved canine family member’s head without warning or explanation and you will have ZERO recourse. They are awful people who want to kill. It’s not a meme.
By that logic, a gun won’t either. Many gun owners are shot by police. If you shoot back at an unlawful entrance, they just bring more. They don’t really care. Power disparity is too great already.
This fight is won elsewhere.
Yah? Where?
I agree we need electoral politics and we need community action, but tell me what you’re going to do if that fails.
Seriously, what do you do when it fails and the violence spreads, and they start kicking down doors. What international law-enforcement do you think exists out there? How sheltered and comfortable is your life that you think “that can’t happen here?” Answer me.
Because a lot of shit that people said will “never happen here” is fucking happening here RIGHT NOW.
The fight was lost in the Supreme Court. 42 USC §1988 was explicitly set up to grant civil rights attorneys fees if they won their claim (and it costs a lot to prosecute a civil rights claim). But lawyers and firms would accept winnable civil rights cases on the basis that they would eventually get paid. That came to a halt in 2001 in 532 US 598, decided on May 2001, which talked about the rights of the “prevailing party” to be paid. In function, it killed civil rights litigation.
Buckhannon Board & Care Home, Inc. v. West Virginia Department of Health & Human Resources https://www.oyez.org/cases/2000/99-1848
The police shooting people because they have or might have guns is a clear violation of the 2nd amendment right to carry. (ACLU never got involved because they don’t take 2nd amendment cases).
But here’s the thing. Cops don’t arrest right wing armed protesters. Why do you think that is? Cops are willing to shoot unarmed protesters in wheelchairs, but fail to move on a fat out of shape protestor with an AR-15. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/25/protests-houston-police-shoot-unarmed-man-wheelchair
“Winning” requires multiple fronts, from civil resistance and disobedience, to openly carrying protests, to voting, to boycotts, to lawsuits, to just simply speaking out when something isn’t right. And proposing alternative solutions.
Oh I know exactly why that is.
Against random criminals, not occupying forces with an itchy trigger finger.
Good thing Alex Pretti was armed. Oh wait.
If only he had a dog with him…
Yeah the dog thing is silly too.
An organized and effective political movement is what will protect us, not weapons.
An organized and effective political movement with weapons.
I don’t see how the weapons will be useful honestly. Iran has a very well armed military and they’re almost totally powerless before the US military. Military conflict is perhaps the singular thing fascists are best at. I’d rather attack my enemies where they are weak instead of where they are strong.
I mean I’m not opposed to people being armed but it really should be viewed as a last resort to hurt your enemies as much as possible before you’re totally wiped out rather than a realistic path to political change.
We will see, we will see.
Tell it to Afghanistan.
Foreign adventures are different. The US military won’t get bored and go home inside the US the way they do elsewhere.
Cops love to shoot dogs.
Even chihuahua?
They’re smaller and harder to hit.
Smaller hitbox. Fair argument.
They distract the invaders while I load my crossbow.
Elaborate.
I know that the second a gun is brought into a house the members of the household are significantly more likely to be shot. I believe it’s because of the number of gun related suicides as well as the risk of a negligent discharge.
This is true, but in a vacuum in a life-threatening situation a gun is better than a dog for defending yourself. And also does not require you to intentionally put an innocent creature in harm’s way. And also does not require nearly as much upkeep as a dog.
But you are correct, the presence of a gun does statically increase your risk of being shot. And that is something worth considering.
Edit: and furthermore if you buy a guard dog, your risk of being mauled by a dog will likewise go up.
¿Por que no los dos?
A claw hammer would be a better option than a gun. Why does everyone assume that a gun would be the best thing to defend yourself with in all situations.
Ok you bring a claw hammer and I’ll bring a rifle we’ll test your theory out
Think to yourself for two seconds why a gun would be better for self-defense than a hammer.
“Oh no, now everything looks like a nail! Guess it’s Hammer Time.”
Because if roving death squads knock on your door to haul you off to one of the many new, huge concentration camps they’re building, they will think twice if you have a shotgun pointed at your door, not so much if you have a fukkin hammer pointed at the door.
I am speaking as someone who taught self defense and martial arts for many years.
Are we shooting eachother across a field or are you invading my house?
What advantage does a hammer have over a gun in a moment of self-defense?
I can grab it at a moments notice as it can safely be left out, you don’t have to load it or aim it so using it is fast and simple. If its my home they’re invading I know where to hide. I trust my ability to swing and hit someone in a panic far more than I do my ability to handle a gun under the same pressure. Its just going to be easier and more reliable to hit someones head with a hammer than it will be to shoot them.
Unlike you, I actually train with my gun so we have very different concerns when under pressure. Mine relate more to not getting killed to make some kind of moral stand about how guns are bad in all contexts.
Brother I aint said shit about how I feel about gun ownership, you read into that. I’m just pointing out that I really do think a claw hammer is just an overall more utilitarian self defense weapon.
Okay fair enough. I would agree it’s definitely better than something unwieldy like an AR, but personally I’d rather have a handgun than a hammer. If someone’s breaking into my house and actively snooping around such that simply hiding and waiting for them to leave isn’t going to keep me safe, then there’s an above normal (but probably not strictly likely) chance that they’re on some kind of stimulant. A hammer may or may not put them down. A few hollow points tearing through their chest cavity probably will. Hammer definitely isn’t bad, but I personally think the odds are stronger with a handgun.
Honestly, I wouldn’t leave hammers lying around where kids could get to them any more than guns. The hammer will be less deadly, sure, but a dumb kid will still cause a lot of damage with it.
True
False, lol. You out there protecting yourself with unaimed hammer swings?
Skill issue. Requires training time.
The only advantage I agree with is the ability to leave a hammer out versus a gun, and that’s only in cases of having small children at home. If your gun is for self-defense, it would make more sense to keep it loaded and easily accessible.
I have to say it’s a very strange stance to prefer to defend yourself within arm’s reach of an assailant versus at a distance. I think you’re also giving yourself a lot of credit when you say you’d be more confident swinging a hammer with enough accuracy and strength to incapacitate someone while panicking. Better hope you get them in one swing.
Maybe its just because I’ve been in a lot of dog fights, but if someone close to you swings something heavy, i think most people would drop the gun to try stopping it. However it is sooo situational.
Pro tip: If you have a gun, it’s also something heavy you can swing at people, if you for some reason think that’s a superior tactic.
Unless you’re fighting nails, a claw hammer is not not the best thing to defend yourself with in any situation.