My stance is as they say in Poland.
Not my monkeys, not my circus. I just dont care.
It doesn’t affect me in the slightest, other than a minimal amount of the taxes i pay go towards treatment of their illness. Although, i find it slightly hypocritical that they are allowed to start changing gender before 18. Would seem that many other things should be allowed before 18 aswell in that case.
I can’t speak as to Polish law, but kids are allowed to do quite a bit before the age of 18 in the US. Going on puberty blockers - to delay a puberty that could damn well be an irreversible scar on the psyche - is hardly an opening for a shakeup of the legal position of minors.
Not Polish, its just a Polish saying.
I’m not convinced that a kid can make that judgement. Certainly not before puberty. But that might just be my own unwavering feeling of comfort in my own sex talking.
If a doctor makes a judgement of it, then my opinion doesn’t matter.
Puberty blockers aren’t OTC, they’re prescribed by doctors. The kid’s not making the judgement so much as they’re bringing up the medical issue to a professional.
I was diagnosed with depression at a fairly young age, just entering into my teens, but I only got in to see a psych to begin with because I was worried enough to self-advocate. Can’t really imagine what it would be like if I was told that I was too young to understand depression and turned out on my metaphorical ass.
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This guy mansplains to doctors.
And mutilating people bodies to try to “cure” them is barbaric and insane.
You’re absolutely right. Let me get Hippocrates on the line, warn him of these dangerous ‘surgeon’ quacks waving their knives about.
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DSM also thought being gay was a mental disorder. Caving to pressure is sometimes a good thing.
Can you think of any other things that were previously classified as mental disorders but no longer are?
Maybe that’s not a fair question, maybe I’m just being hysterical.
“Being born in the wrong body” is a phrase used to simplify a fairly complex situation in a way that also makes it seem like to trans people it’s a metaphysical belief about the nature of the the soul. This is by and large incorrect. What trans people experience isn’t delusion. Delusion relies on a belief that contradicts reality or relies on the very shaky ground of the insubstantiated supernatural. What trans people experience is an uncontrolled mental reaction to physical replicatable stimuli to their own bodies. All the cultural stuff is in service to this.
For example - When you call a trans man a woman - what that person is reacting to is your perception of their body making them ground in that physical discomfort. It is like if you had a physical feature you despised, say a physical deformation with a traumatic memory attached, and people kept remarking on it in conversation. While you might be able to walk the world happily temporarily forgetting it exists someone remarking on it is like shoving a mirror in your face. This is why misgendering doesn’t have to be intentional to be hurtful.
Our culture has a lot of cultural protections built in for people who have deformaties through birth or accident because we understand universally the effect those things have on the psyche. It’s impolite to stare, to mention or exclude people with those features. Gender however is harmless for about 98% of the population. It’s remarked upon in the form of pronouns in every conversation where three or more people participate. This is ultimately why that saying "trans women are woman (etc.) " exists. It’s not them saying that trans people have any misunderstandings or delusions about the history of their bodies or how they differ from cis women. They have no delusions, they are painfully aware, at all times, exactly how they differ. What that saying is trying to convey is that a trans person should not be treated or categorized by society any differently than cis people of that gender or should be accommodated for being treated as neither gender.
This is also why surgeries are often employed. It’s in part to gain unwitting compliance from a population who reacts to physical sex characteristics and pairs that with gender. It’s mending how people react to themselves in the mirror as much as it is removing the mirror from the hands of other people. What the removal of the disorder portion of the DSM was about was an acknowledgement that this problem is cultural. It is as much a problem with society’s constructions and beliefs around sex and gender as it is a singular person’s problem. Just as being gay is only a problem if society responds to it as an undesirable characteristic the issues with being trans are exacerbated by cultural sorting of gender into exclusive categories and people’s personal ick about people’s surgical and hormonal personal autonomy around their bodies.
The reason trans people have to frame their fight primarily as medically nessisary intervention is largely because of cis people’s squeamishness causing them issues of lack of personal freedom to choose how to personally navigate a society not built to manage their specific personal struggles around their physical sex. The problem with society isn’t going anywhere most places yet so the individual is assuming the burdens of that and it’s well proven that those experiencing this issue are tackling that issue in thoughtful, logic based ways with proven ability to accurately judge risk and reward of their choices on that front.
Out of curiosity, if you woke up tomorrow in the body of the opposite sex, how do you think you would feel or act on this in the long term? Like through magic, or alien science. Like in those 80s body swap movies, just permanent. Can you imagine that?
Personally I think I would just adapt. I’m a straight male and perfectly comfortable and like being a male, but I think I’d just live as a lesbian women then. It would be challenging and weird and people would see me differently, but it would also be intellectually interesting.
I recently realized that this makes me more gender-fluid than most trans people. Basically they might be more bonded to a concept of a specific gender than even the majority of people. And that is why it’s hard to imagine what they are going through, and hard to emphasize. If I imagine I’d have grown up as a girl I’d be perfectly comfortable as that too.
I like science fiction and consider myself a transhumanist, someone who believes that we should gain advanced bodies with full control over them, and e.g. change sex or appearance without needing surgery. Like if you could spend a year as a opposite sex without having to suffer and bleed for it, why wouldn’t you do it, even just to gain insight.
I don’t think you can make any argument saying that a human is sick just for strongly preferring or needing to be one gender. I don’t understand this need either, and think what lengths some people to is weird and some results questionable, but I can’t say they are wrong. There is an infinite number of ways a human mind can be. Why do you think it’s a mental illness?
Also, if you imagine a future where you could turn “flawlessly” into the opposite sex, and change back too, do you still think it would be a mental illness?
Ok buddy. Would you like some crayons to munch on while you go through life wondering why nobody likes you?
That’s actually a pretty good argument.
I support trans people’s right to exist and to be able to live happy lives 🤘 ❤️ crazy how so many transphobes obsess over trans people. most of them haven’t even met a trans person
Any transphobe I’ve had the misfortune of talking to has met a trans person. Most of them don’t notice. One of them repeatedly hit on me.
I always equate these things just to human rights and the fact that someone is trans doesn’t automatically negate their right to live or be happier or prosperous. The fact that they’re trans should have no effect on basic human rights.
Most of them probably have, but didn’t notice.
the whole (he/him) in my email signature was a wild ride… like do I add it even though I’m CIS/hetero/boring? I see all the middle aged white women in my office doing it, and that means it’s a few weeks from HR making a vague rule about it… I’m not conservative, but I don’t want to be some fake virtue signaler, since I don’t really know any trans people… but I don’t want to give some kind of passive approval of intolerance by NOT adding it… will HR flag me if I do add it? or if I don’t?
I support the trans agenda, the gay agenda, the woke agenda, and the Hyena Agenda.
The what agenda?
Lol
“non-trans” normal person here, and I think everyone who has a problem with trans / queer / whatever people is a fucking moron. I absolutely support the “trans agenda”
Gentle FYI for you today, the term for non-trans is cis or cisgender. 💜
I am fully aware what some people use, but it is a made-up word of the English language and I won’t apply it to myself. I don’t have a problem with people using it, but it’s not my vocabulary. It neither has an inherent sense, nor does it have any added value in most context. I respect that it helps to normalize specifying whatever gender one associates with when “cis” people also do it, as opposed to only having trans / non-binary people to specify “what” they identify as. But my solidarity extends only to full acceptance and tolerance, not to changing how I “identify” myself :p
“Cis” is as real a word as “trans” is. They’re both Latin prefixes. Cisgender has literally no other meaning besides “not transgender”
No, that part (cis) is a prefix and means “on this side of”. And for “on this side of gender” to mean what cisgender is used as, is a newly agreed-upon thing in the evolution of LGBTQ culture.
That’s not quite how a natural language like English works. There’s a bunch of mess and idioms and “technically correct” is almost never how things start to get used in real life. Thus often it happens that whatever is the majority becomes the default, like for instance cisgender is a concept that almost never has to be used because 99% of people are cisgender. Not that it’s not a valid term, it’s just a term that’s almost universally redundant.
but it is a made-up word of the English language
Interesting, because every word you’ve used is made-up word of the English language.
I think he’s referring to the difference of descriptive vs prescriptive. I mean, some english words and concepts just become standard without anyone trying to make them that.
Terms like cisgender or “they” as a pronoun on identical level to “he” and “she” is an example of trying to be prescriptive. You would never have to correct people with native level language skills on the correct use of these words if they weren’t.
Singular they had been around since the 14th century. If you want to say it was prescriptive then I might be willing to agree, but we aren’t in the 14th century. We’re in the 21st century. I’m sure you’ll agree that over 500 years of precedence makes it descriptive by that point.
This is where I fall off with liberals. “Lose the Trans talking points, they are holding the DNC back.”
How about first we try losing the DNC talking points. They’ve been in charge this whole time and I didn’t see trans people allow fascism to wash over the states while they were at the head of the government.
You arent going to win any elections catering to 1% of the total population and alienating a large part of it. I would say that is just common sense politics at this point.
Protecting the rights of individuals is not catering to 1% of the total population. Its the bare minimum in a supposed civilized democracy. You can never, ever, compromise on protecting individuals that are causing no harm to others and just trying to navigate through the world.
Do we need to showcase the trans issue? No. We need politicians that are better at navigating the media environment and can effectively strategize against the GOP propaganda machine.
If you do that first, you wouldn’t have an issue with trans people. For fuck sakes make an attempt at it even and if they are capable and what I say is wrong, fine, expel the trans people from the party. Except, accept you will never be a party of values only one of opposition, so be cautious of ever trying to claim morality after that point.
Lose the gun talking point.
Dems be Beto O’Rourke’ing every election
This is the moment that O’Rourke lost texas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMVhL6OOuR0
2nd amendment can serve an important purpose, kill traitors who are violating the constitution.
Unfortunately, dems managed to convince people left-of-center to disarm, while the far-right have become the majority of gun owners.
Thanks, Democrats. You did the job for the fascists.
Gun are great. End fascism where the idea begins 🧠 by using the 2A
it is like watching interdimensional cable from Rick and Morty “in this reality it is normal to carry guns and the discussion is which side of the aisle has more”
I have been saying this for years, as someone who lives in Texas: If the Dems stopped talking about “taking away guns”, then Progressive policies/candidates would win in landslide elections constantly.
I voted for Beto, donated to his campaign, had his yard sign, etc. But I knew that sound clip was going to haunt him forever.
I am far from a one issue voter, but the louder you are against the working class being armed, the slimmer the chances of me voting for you.
Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary
- Karl Marx
It’s one of things we actually agree with rightoids about… Democrat strategy is stupid beyond belief; who are the anti-gun libs going to vote for, the Republicans?
I feel like… this is half baked… but I feel like the gun stuff should be … states rights? Push it down to the state level. Let texas be texas. Let new york or new york city specifically have its own laws. Make right wing people argue against states rights some more.
What’s wrong with vacuum tubes?
Protect the dolls!
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hugs. hugs to all my trans sisters, brothers, siblings. we need each other now more than ever.
I support not hating or attacking people for their uniqueness and individuality but I’m not going to wear a badge or wave a placard. I will speak up or attempt to defend anyone being hated or attacked but I don’t have a chip on my shoulder and am not looking for a fight. Don’t take any shit from the haters. Haters are less, you are not!
My transmission is a whiny bitch and should not have it’s agenda supported!
Wait we’re talking about trans folks? Sure I’ll support them.
My trans is an automatic. It’s fine, but I much prefer the manual ones with the stick I can really wrap my hand around and slide up and down and up and down… and up and down.
Can’t get the thoughts that this earth was made for psychopaths off my mind
The vast majority of human history operated on gift economies. Oppressive systems of government (and governments in general) are much more of a recent invention in the grand scheme lf things.
One we must end
Through immediate violence, not sitting around for years and years waiting for a legal option that may never come and if it does will be rigged meanwhile innocent people are suffering each day.
If it’s any consolation, psychopaths have suffered serious setbacks these past 500 years or so.
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