Came across this community in my feed, and after browsing a bit I’m intrigued.
As an “outsider”, I would have assumed this place would be about enjoying a childfree lifestyle, but it seems to be more than that.
For example, I see lots of posts and comments that seem to allude to extinctionism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement
That caught me off guard since I figured this place would be more like “look at all this free time and money and freedom I have to enjoy my life to the fullest in any way I want”. Now I’m curious.
It seems like there’s a whole spectrum of ideas that are getting lumped into the same bucket. What’s your take? What brought you here?
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“Child-free” just means what it says on the box. However, you might be interested in exploring the anti-natalism movement.
I don’t like kids and I don’t want them in my house. I’m polite and kind to them should the need arise, but I’d rather not have them near me. I also like money and freedom.
That said I also fully support socialized childcare, healthcare, education, and employment programs so that the children that do exist in the world are well taken care of and can grow up into healthy, well-adjusted adults.
Being childfree primarily means you don’t want kids. It’s really that simple, and kind of astounding that it’s still a fairly small subset of people.
To me it means not bringing another wage slave into the world, not bringing another person into the world that capitalism will chew up and spit out. Loving my potential kids enough to not subject them to … This (broadly gestures at everything). Imo you’d have to be a sadist to have children in todays climate.
But there are of course secondary reasons, I like free time, I like sleeping in on the weekend, I like disposable income. And I’m not in a financial position to be able to have these things and also have kids. I have no interest in interacting with other parents to setup a play date. I don’t want to hang out at playgrounds, I don’t want to do the school pickup/dropoff, I don’t want to watch Disney movies or Bluey. I just don’t want to live the lifestyle that is being a parent.
I also have neices and nephews who I love more than almost anything. So I get more than enough kid time. Being the favourite uncle is exhausting and there’s no way I have the energy or patience to do that full time.
So between not wanting kids for their sake, not wanting them for my sake, and not wanting them for the sake of the environment, I choose to not.
I was going to get married, we disagreed on having children; I wasn’t against it and I wanted to be financially stable beforehand. I also didn’t want to be solely responsible for finances either. I had already been working hard while someone wasn’t in half of the relationship. Taking care of bills, transportation, cooking, cleaning, doing laundry for two, so on and so forth. I felt like I was solo leveling life for two after a few years. I didn’t want to get myself deeper in this mess. We met in college and dated for about 6 years. at that point I said, no thank you.
After that I ended up working in education. That’s when I chose not to have children.
One day we go on a field trip to an ice skating rink, I took care of this little girl as she was smaller than the rest. Skates on, helmet on, and I held her hand while we skated in the center so she didn’t get hurt. And I thought huh this might not so bad. On the way back she told me how her daddy thought it was funny to hit her. So there’s my first CPS report. There was only horror story after horror story after that. I got heavy into drinking because I couldn’t fathom how people could do the things, I won’t write about, to kids.
That shit still haunts me everyday over a decade later. So I’m happy being single and not having children. Also in this economy? lol
Fuck, I hate that CPS stories are such a commonality …pretty much everywhere 🫂 Even my story now that I think about it…wtf?! … 🫂🥺
🫂🥺 I wish that poor girl and you the best 🥺🫂
…But DAMM we have got to make this stop. When do we FINALLY make these stories stop?!
“Ain’t got no kids, don’t want no kids.”
Simple as. I’ve known vegans that are the annoying militant types and vegans that were just living their lives, they run the gamut and so does, well, everyone ever. Tankies, republicans, Taylor damn Swift fans, on and on. In everything some are more ardent supporters than others, and those are usually louder and the most annoying.
I feel that quiet and loud supporters have their place in most movements.
Like the people of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising were clearly the more loud and violent members of the groups of people that defended the downtrodden people in nazi Poland but they were clearly the most necessary members of the movment.
There is , however, no need to be loud and violent to people just living a peaceful , sustainable life.
Each person in each movement has their place and time is what I am saying.
To me it means a couple things I need to be explicit about…
Ill use myself as one ofnthe examples. One thing that it means that all because I have a little bit of a breeding kink that doesnt mean Im allowedd to breed - because I already know Im the type of person who is too broke and honestly too dumb to be ever allowed to raise a child. Thats why even though Im still a virgin, I got vasectomy before I do anything with my future gf or bf or whoever I meet in the future. Also in the future humanity will be killing each other in wars over cool water and cool places to hide in the shade, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0KQYNtPl7V4&pp=ygUUYmFkZW1wYW5hZGEgYmFkIG5ld3M%3D , so why would birth a child into a hell hole like this?
I also accept that a person who is a regretfulparent is ALSO classified as childfree. Like. the state of Niger has outlawed a person being asexual and also I dont know how consistent access to sterilizations , sex ed, birth controls, and abortions are in that part of the world so if a person from there with 2 or 3 kids told me they were a childfree regretful parent? I would believe them.
However it does not mean a person who is childless as in the childless person have a medical condition that makes having a child nearly impossible for them to produce a child from themselves so they will adopt a child if they ever get the chance to. Being childfree is a choice , not a mandatory situation that you suffer through cause of a medical condition youor your partner(s) have
It means not doing the type of nonsense that casey anthony did so thats one thing
i don’t care if people have kids. i don’t want to have kids and i don’t want to be pressed for having kids. knowing that like minded people exist make the social pressure a bit more bearable
childfree means, that im not getting a kid despite my instinct, i decide not to have any. by doin so i dont repeat the “no money, no time” struggle my parents had.
many also say that the current state of the world is not suitable for a little one. bit of a doomer thinking, but i do accept it as a correct anwser as well.
the “hehe look at all the freetime” is kinda a funny comic strip like state of mind. it is def an advantage, but never a main reason. at least not if you are not an egoistic shithead.
Child-free means one doesn’t have kids and doesn’t want kids. That’s all. I’m here to connect with other people living that lifestyle. There’s no need for anyone to brag about their free time/money/energy. There could be some overlap with niche philosophies held by other people here. But my understanding is that’s not what the Child-free community is inherently about. Anyway, welcome!
Sounds very reasonable, thanks!
Childfree, to me, means I don’t have or want kids. There are lots of different reasons why people make that choice, so I’m not really surprised.
For me it is first and foremost that I don’t want children in my life. I won’t have them, and I won’t live with or date anyone who has them.
I love my nieces and nephews, and have always enjoyed their company. As a skateboard and snowboard instructor I’ve always enjoyed seeing kids learn new things and how excited they get.
But in my home, in my personal life, they simply aren’t welcome.
The money, freedom, free time, etc, are all bonuses, but they are not the driving factor.
I want a calm, quiet, peaceful home. I want uninterrupted sleep. I do not want to spend any time cleaning up after someone else, or having to make my space child safe.
I also don’t want to have to deal with other parents, teachers, or navigating the ever changing social landscape that young people seem so wrapped up in.
In the end, there isn’t a single benefit I can see to having a child, and a near endless list of stresses I can just do without.
Finding the childfree reddit years ago was the first time I had found a community which supported this lifestyle, so when I moved to Lemmy joining this was an obvious choice.
ya having no extra stressors at home was probably one of my biggest motivating factors.
I im thoroughly in the camp that NOBODY who works a 40 hour work week and has to come home to raise kids is able to stay sane. the 40 hour work week is archaic and self destructive as far as my experience has shown me. Im not taking on an extra stressor that will surely land me into a psych ward.
I was childfree before Reddit existed. I’m on Lemmy because of the deliberate enshittification of Reddit. (I haven’t fully abandoned Reddit, though.)
my question is how do you stand the currnt reddit?
I tried to switch to old.reddit and I need a login to access it but since reddit has given me a lifetime IP ban…
Finding the childfree reddit years ago was the first time I had found a community which supported this lifestyle, so when I moved to Lemmy joining this was an obvious choice.
Would you say that “community support of the lifestyle” is the main draw here? It seems like there’s a lot of content here about how society in general tries to paint not having kids as a weird choice.
As I understand it, being childfree simply means not having and not wanting children. There doesn’t need to be a philosophical reason for that; reasons such as finding children annoying can be enough. Antinatalists, however, are philosophically opposed to procreation. They believe that suffering is an overwhelming part of life (stemming from disease, financial status, bereavement, and many others), and they argue it would be better if someone were never exposed to it in the first place. Existing beings, though, learn to deal with it.
Because antinatalism is a philosophy and childfree is a life choice, you will see people across the entire spectrum.
- Some people are childfree (do not have or want kids) but are not philosophically inclined to any specific position. They do not necessarily want the human race to end.
- Some people are childfree and antinatalist (philosophically opposed to procreation). Antinatalists may or may not care about extinction. Some ideally want human extinction (anthropocentric extinction), while others want the extinction of all sentient beings (sentiocentric extinction). Some others do not care about extinction at all because it is not practically possible. It should be noted that antinatalists favor voluntary extinction through peaceful means only.
- Some people are not childfree (they have children) but became antinatalist only after having them.
Personally, I started out as childfree and later became an antinatalist. I don’t like how noisy children are. I can spend some time with children, but after a certain threshold, I get really tired and annoyed. Also, my depression and anxiety play a large part in my decision not to bring children into the world. I don’t want them to go through all this bullshit (and this is where antinatalism comes in).
If I ever “change my mind” like countless people suggest, I’ll just adopt.
Also, my depression and anxiety play a large part in my decision not to bring children into the world. I don’t want them to go through all this bullshit (and this is where antinatalism comes in).
This is interesting, because my initial (possibly naive) reaction to learning about antinatalism was that it sounded like a projection of depression. It sounds like the core thesis is “life is not worth the suffering and therefore shouldn’t be forced onto anyone”, and it seems like depression is a prerequisite to holding that particular view.
That is not an unfair assumption to make. It is possible that people with depression have a disposition towards pessimism, nihilism, and antinatalism; however, I would like to know how that invalidates the position. Note that this philosophy has been exposed to people without depression as well, and so far, it has been incredibly hard to refute without assuming life, humanity, or sentience as positive things.
Philosophical pessimism, particularly Schopenhauerian thought, asserts that suffering is the default state of life, and happiness is merely a temporary alleviation of it. This makes sense when viewed through an evolutionary lens. Suffering is what drives us to avoid death, while pleasure serves as reinforcement that the death-defying action is favorable to our continued existence.
Consider a primitive person being hunted by a predator. That person experiences suffering, which prompts them to escape. They outrun the predator and avoid death. Then they experience happiness, which acts as reinforcement to continue the escape behavior. This is why we experience pain more intensely than pleasure. If it were not so, the primitive person would have died and we would have never been here. This principle applies to hunger, loneliness, insomnia, and similar biological drives.
Some propose the argument that life would be worth it once suffering is solved. Under the reasoning I presented above, I do not see how this could be “solved”. How will you solve death economically? How will you remove or solve bereavement? How will you permanently solve disease?
Let us say you selectively keep pumping dopamine and serotonin, and selectively inhibit their reuptake whilst constantly monitoring pleasure and pain. Will this not be detrimental to your survival? What if you run into scenarios where it is necessary for you to “escape”?
As I see it, suffering is necessary for survival; it needs to be the default state, and it is experienced more intensely than pleasure. We, as already existing beings, need suffering, but it need not be imposed on the non-existent.
(Sorry if I went into a tangent, lol!)
I don’t personally believe that depression is necessary to see things that way. Life is objectively bad for many people.
My question is there a philosiphy around this concept of : “Life is objectively bad for many people. And because I dont want more people to suffer I wont have kids. BUT if life becomes permanently better for all humans who are suffering then Ill probably adopt some kids. (But seeing as how humanity has had a consistent track record of making things worse for each other?..Uhhh we will have to see about how that turns out. I aint hopeful though , let it be known)”
Is there a philosophy for this or is it just nihilist?
I don’t see this as nihilism. Additionally, I don’t see why adoption needs to be contingent on life becoming permanently better for all humans. If you want kids, and are able to provide an adopted child with a better life, I see that as a win-win. Under antinatalism, if you do not have any children already, the choice of adoption just reduces to the childfree case (e.g. do you find them annoying?). Therefore, your thought seems pretty much to line up with antinatalism.
Well I myself am sufferring and Ive comme to the realization. that most of my suffering is due to capitalism .
So until I see a permanent destruction of capitaliism and a permanent transition of humanity towards societies that are humanistic or/and collectivistic? I wont be caring for any kids throigh adoption because I currently dont have the time or money (or honestly even the sanity,) to be anywheree near a kid.
I already have a permanent vasectommy that my doctor has informed me probably wonnt be reversible so I cant produce children anymore through normal means.
But most importantly even if I could have children , I would opt for me and my future partner (if I ever meet them) for us to adopt rather than to try IVF or to try a vasectomy reversal. if we want kids cause why in the fuck are we STILL allowing so so many minors , who are deserving of a parennts love, to just wallow and freeze to death in the streets? Why should I make my own kid when ‘my own kid’ is most likely out there in the streets somewhere?
Correction: humanity doesn’t have consistent track record of making things worse for each other, it’s all on civilaztions that have ever adopted farming. There are still some fragments of communities living as hunter gatherers that base their life together on cooperation and caring.
There are still some fragments of communities living as hunter gatherers that base their life together on cooperation and caring.
i think my problem is based on what Ive seen I think that most modern societies are NOT based on cooperation and caring. I will commend peoples those who still live in hunter gatherer societies that are based on cooperation , care and community
…But most imperialistic and even imperialized nations I have read about seem to not see and treat these three things with as much inportance in all their planning as they oughta.
Basically fuck capitalism and those who uphold and defend its cold, individualistic , and genocidal principles.
Does that invalidate the position?
Yeah its like I called myself an antinatilist but then someone pointed out some definition where you would like force people to be. My wife and I in the mid aughts realized we were never going to be able to swing children with our income situation vs what we were seeing society wise. Basically we are not ok with having kids with less quality of life than us and are not ok with us haveing less quality of life than our parents. This is combined with the environmental impact on humanity which is far to large for our biosphere based on how we aport ourselves as a species. Further we basically think people are kinda nuts to have kids in the first world as things are and encourage people not to. So from I guess an antinatilist light perspective I comment here. We though about adoption but things just got worse and at this point we are not sure if we will be able to take care of ourselves at an age when we should be helping young folks get established. Anyway we are not actually childree for any day to day convience type of reason but to tell the truth. With everything that has gone on this millenium. If we were like magically transported to a universe in which all that was not the case. Whelp I think at this point we are a bit like PTSD and would still just not do it. Maybe given enough low stress years we might think about adoption again but again it would need to be magic as we are to old at this point.
I don’t like children in general and would prefer not to be around them in any capacity. It would be fine with me if people stopped having children, but I realize that’s unreasonable.
Theyll tell you its unreasonable for them to NOT have kids but then you tell them about how their child will probably live an awful life related to this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0KQYNtPl7V4&pp=ygUUYmFkZW1wYW5hZGEgYmFkIG5ld3M%3D
and now they want your head on a stick for how ‘unreasonable’ youre being … 😂🤣🤭
