I agree with the sentiment but the “it didn’t happen right away” argument would be true of either type of action.
Thankfully, we can look back at history for assistance. “Adventurism” or “the propaganda of the deed” have very often resulted in apathy within the masses and not in any revolutionary potential building.
So, you’re right. But things do take time to build movements that actually result in change. Thankfully we also have history to help direct us there as well.
The “Propaganda of the deed” has historical resulted in apathy just like yours. It’s why people cling to it. Enjoy it. But never actually go and do something to fight back. You sit back waiting for the next “deed” to make you feel good. Or maybe you are the small small fraction that go do the deed themselves.
Also, there is no rule that that says you can’t keep enjoying workers burn down warehouses. But criticizing actual militant workers actions that HAVE historically worked. The only reason you’d do that is either fear or apathy.
This isn’t something new. People have been trying to spark changes to society this way for centuries. There is literally mountains of literature written on the failures of the “propaganda of the deed”. You’re advocating for something that makes you feel good. Not that actually works.
We meet at many places now but you don’t show up to an Amazon warehouse armed as your first step. Not how that works.
Shit like that needs material support built. That will be highly dependent on your local area right now as there are no country wide movements.
But, if you’re looking to start doing something instead of nothing and you aren’t quite ready to burn a warehouse down then you can look for PSL or DSA in your area. You’ll at least be around people that are working for these things and likely be able to find local organizations from these relationships. Union resources, weapons training, etc.
Not a hero, his action took from others. He could have been part of a unionization effort, instead he chose violence and harmed his peers. This isn’t the win you think it is and nothing good will come of it. Some of you need to grow the hell up.
His actions took from others who took from us. The profits from that inventory were going to to a tiny slice of humanity that didn’t earn it, don’t deserve it, and would take more if they could. They could have avoided all of it by taking less profit at the top, and spreading it among those who actually did the work and earned it, but the only consideration was how to take even more from the workers. They already took so much that it inspired one of their workers to burn it all down.
He didn’t kill anyone, at least nobody innocent, he just burned their MONEY. That’s what hurts them the most.
Advocating for unionization efforts is far more damaging to capitalism than adventurism.
I’m sorry comrade. You are advocating for “the propaganda of the deed” over someone directing people to one of the best and only forms of organization that exist in America.
Unions are where people feel solidarity. Unions are where people begin steps to radicalization when they realize organized efforts CAN improve their material conditions.
Rosa Luxembourg was also very critical of adventurism and the “propaganda of the deed”. So it’s ironic to quote her.
Pointing people to actually organize is not “reform”. We aren’t in a world that has a massive trade union party that is advocating against the socialists and working with the liberals to prevent their popularity from rising. If we get there I’ll have a conversation about unions being a part of “reform”.
I think you might have done some reading. But it definitely doesn’t sound like you’ve tried to apply any of it to the world you live in today.
We aren’t getting to revolution through adventurism.
Loooool this fuck still thinking words work. Unionize… okay sure yeah keep suffering and starving for another few years while the ceo and union bosses sign the right paperwork, right after brunch. Oh wait there was a spelling mistake. They will have a meeting on when to schedule a fucking meeting to sign a new deal. But hey you can keep choosing between skiping a meal for 6 days this week or getting your kid winter coat. They definitely will sign a deal some time next month. To what only find a 5$ /hr increase in pay but 2.50 has to go to the union for all their “hard work”.
I agree with you. But there is definitely a better way to communicate this. I tried to do my best in an above comment.
People don’t like having the air pulled out from the feeling of justice these types of “deeds” result in. This type of adventurism is not something that results in progress. I agree.
But, it is an opportunity to use that feeling as a means of propaganda for what actually does work. We all feel the frustration and rage that led to this act. Instead of taking the gas out of that feeling by focusing on criticism, it’s better to just redirect that feeling towards things that actually work.
This country has a history of militant labor unions seizing warehouses until demands are met. If people are angry enough to cheer on a warehouse being burnt down they should be open to ideas like that.
They either say “fuck yeah” or they are forced to recognize their own fear and apathy that causes them to cheer on this type of adventurism but remaining inactive themselves. “Hmmm, I’m not gonna go burn down a warehouse and hope other people do. What are other actual options beyond the useless political system we have?”
Sometimes the best way to communicate these things is to just acknowledge and communicate to the alienation people feel and directing it to the right resources.
No one reading this is gonna go burn down a warehouse; but they might unionize their workplace. They might go join socialist organizations.
Goddamn hero
A symbol of heroism. The true heroes are those that don’t burn down the warehouse. They’re the ones that arm themselves and seize it.
We can all relate with getting fed up and doing this in a moment of rage and frustration. But directing that rage together is how we actually win.
Yeah, sure thing buddy.
If you seize property, the police will just un-seize it.
If you set fire to property, it stays set fire to.
Yup. Things like the Tesla dealerships vandalism were very effective. They actually led to musk being tamed somewhat.
I agree with the sentiment but the “it didn’t happen right away” argument would be true of either type of action.
Thankfully, we can look back at history for assistance. “Adventurism” or “the propaganda of the deed” have very often resulted in apathy within the masses and not in any revolutionary potential building.
So, you’re right. But things do take time to build movements that actually result in change. Thankfully we also have history to help direct us there as well.
The “Propaganda of the deed” has historical resulted in apathy just like yours. It’s why people cling to it. Enjoy it. But never actually go and do something to fight back. You sit back waiting for the next “deed” to make you feel good. Or maybe you are the small small fraction that go do the deed themselves.
Also, there is no rule that that says you can’t keep enjoying workers burn down warehouses. But criticizing actual militant workers actions that HAVE historically worked. The only reason you’d do that is either fear or apathy.
This isn’t something new. People have been trying to spark changes to society this way for centuries. There is literally mountains of literature written on the failures of the “propaganda of the deed”. You’re advocating for something that makes you feel good. Not that actually works.
deleted by creator
Good point, lets learn from this and do better next time.
So in front of which Amazon wearhouse are we all meeting now?
We meet at many places now but you don’t show up to an Amazon warehouse armed as your first step. Not how that works.
Shit like that needs material support built. That will be highly dependent on your local area right now as there are no country wide movements.
But, if you’re looking to start doing something instead of nothing and you aren’t quite ready to burn a warehouse down then you can look for PSL or DSA in your area. You’ll at least be around people that are working for these things and likely be able to find local organizations from these relationships. Union resources, weapons training, etc.
Not a hero, his action took from others. He could have been part of a unionization effort, instead he chose violence and harmed his peers. This isn’t the win you think it is and nothing good will come of it. Some of you need to grow the hell up.
Oh, shut the fuck up.
I’m sorry… But fuck you. You need to grow up, you tool.
His actions took from others who took from us. The profits from that inventory were going to to a tiny slice of humanity that didn’t earn it, don’t deserve it, and would take more if they could. They could have avoided all of it by taking less profit at the top, and spreading it among those who actually did the work and earned it, but the only consideration was how to take even more from the workers. They already took so much that it inspired one of their workers to burn it all down.
He didn’t kill anyone, at least nobody innocent, he just burned their MONEY. That’s what hurts them the most.
Reform or revolution.
-Rosa Luxembourg
Read a book and grow the hell up you capitalist sympathizer. (We are way past the point of no return when it comes to reform)
Advocating for unionization efforts is far more damaging to capitalism than adventurism.
I’m sorry comrade. You are advocating for “the propaganda of the deed” over someone directing people to one of the best and only forms of organization that exist in America.
Unions are where people feel solidarity. Unions are where people begin steps to radicalization when they realize organized efforts CAN improve their material conditions.
Rosa Luxembourg was also very critical of adventurism and the “propaganda of the deed”. So it’s ironic to quote her.
Pointing people to actually organize is not “reform”. We aren’t in a world that has a massive trade union party that is advocating against the socialists and working with the liberals to prevent their popularity from rising. If we get there I’ll have a conversation about unions being a part of “reform”.
I think you might have done some reading. But it definitely doesn’t sound like you’ve tried to apply any of it to the world you live in today.
We aren’t getting to revolution through adventurism.
Loooool this fuck still thinking words work. Unionize… okay sure yeah keep suffering and starving for another few years while the ceo and union bosses sign the right paperwork, right after brunch. Oh wait there was a spelling mistake. They will have a meeting on when to schedule a fucking meeting to sign a new deal. But hey you can keep choosing between skiping a meal for 6 days this week or getting your kid winter coat. They definitely will sign a deal some time next month. To what only find a 5$ /hr increase in pay but 2.50 has to go to the union for all their “hard work”.
I agree with you. But there is definitely a better way to communicate this. I tried to do my best in an above comment.
People don’t like having the air pulled out from the feeling of justice these types of “deeds” result in. This type of adventurism is not something that results in progress. I agree.
But, it is an opportunity to use that feeling as a means of propaganda for what actually does work. We all feel the frustration and rage that led to this act. Instead of taking the gas out of that feeling by focusing on criticism, it’s better to just redirect that feeling towards things that actually work.
This country has a history of militant labor unions seizing warehouses until demands are met. If people are angry enough to cheer on a warehouse being burnt down they should be open to ideas like that.
They either say “fuck yeah” or they are forced to recognize their own fear and apathy that causes them to cheer on this type of adventurism but remaining inactive themselves. “Hmmm, I’m not gonna go burn down a warehouse and hope other people do. What are other actual options beyond the useless political system we have?”
Sometimes the best way to communicate these things is to just acknowledge and communicate to the alienation people feel and directing it to the right resources.
No one reading this is gonna go burn down a warehouse; but they might unionize their workplace. They might go join socialist organizations.