Thoughts?
Is this imperialism by China, a country which is supposed to be left-wing? Leftists are normally anti-imperialism. Wouldn’t it be better to let Taiwan democratically decide whether they want to be part of China or not?
Isn’t it just such a fucking coincidence you have all these assholes coming to the same conclusions at the same time?
Putin invaded Ukraine and would love to Hitler his way across Europe in the name of “unity.”
Trump invades Venezuela, yet pretends to be an antiwar isolationist only taking necessary action to protect the U.S. from the flow of fentanyl (which has never been coming from Venezuela, but why let facts get in the way of a shitty narrative).
Now China will invade Taiwan and the U.S. will refuse to get involved because Trump is totally an “isolationist.” (At least when it comes to other continents).
Yep. Totally a coincidence and not a shared strategy for a global fascist takeover by a new axis of evil.
Xi Jinping is an evil scumbag whose goal is to destabilize the world. China needs and deserves Taiwan just as little as Russia needs Crimea.
Taiwan’s sovereign status should be ratified in UN asap.
Unfortunately that won’t happen unless Republic of China declares to become an independent state of Taiwan. In their current form, they claim to be the legitimate government of mainland People’s Republic of China too. I think it’s safe to assume that they won’t get their lands back, but it is not up to me to advise govt affairs.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure that Taiwan would be happy to be just Taiwan instead of Republic of China, if that got them their UN recognition.
Constitution of the Republic of China (Taiwan) : Constitution of the Republic of China (Taiwan)
Sure.
If People’s Republic of China agreed to ratify their UN membership and ratify them as a country if they just changed their name to Taiwan, you think they couldn’t get 75% of their government & 50% of the people to vote for the name change?
I claim that their name has nothing to do with why People’s Republic of China is threatening them with an invasion and forceful annexation.
Calling it annexation is the pan-green position of the DPP. The other major ROC position of the KMT (pan-blue) would never use annexation because it would infer that the PRC is legitimate.
The PRC, of course, would also not use annexation. They would claim reunification of the country from a seperatist groups like the DPP.
I feel odd having to say this, but because I understand the other side doesn’t mean I agree with them. Its important for me to understand the major positions in this conflict.
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You are wrong.
Does me saying that help you notice that you are wrong?
They call themselves oficially the “true” govern of China to this day, and their internal diplomacy is based on that.
Does me saying that help you notice that you are wrong?
Well, no, if you just say it. Duh. Who do you think you are?
They call themselves oficially the “true” govern of China to this day, and their internal diplomacy is based on that.
I feel like you totally did not read the last sentence of my comment, so I’ll quote it here so you can be sure not to miss it!
if that got them their UN recognition.
No-one in the government of Taiwan considers themselves the true government of China. But they’re stuck with the old constitutional claims from the 1940s still on the paper because any change to reflect reality would be called a “declaration of independence” by China, and trigger a military reaction.
You don’t think that people in the KMT would? I think there are still some who hold that view and would never say it because it’s brings waaaay too much heat and no political points. Rather, the KMT has shifted to cultural identity position.
“We are the original China; we don’t need to declare independence because we are already the masters of our own (ROC) house.” - Chairwoman Cheng
they claim to be the legitimate government of mainland
They have a better claim then the government in Beijing but ultimately lack the force to back it up. They should have just dropped the pipe dream years ago.
They lost a civil war and retreated from the land. How is that a better claim?
Xi’s claim to legitimacy is based on the threat of violence. The President of Taiwan’s legitimacy is based on being chosen by the people. It’s called Consent; something the Beijing regime has always lacked and been indifferent to.
Winning an election in Taiwan doesn’t give them a claim to mainland China. This isn’t relevant.
And not winning any elections doesn’t give Xi Jinping any claim to mainland China either.
Winning the civil war and controlling the land does.
China, a country which is supposed to be left-wing
Uhh, citation needed? Communism by name only does not a left wing country make
So it’s never left unless things work perfectly fine? It’s always fake left? China’s government control of the economy is very very lefty.
I’m left myself, but this easy escape by some left people really annoys me. Things can only improve if one acknowledges the mistakes and flaws.
I mean it’s the same reason the Nazis weren’t socialist despite being the national socialist party. It’s in name only. I don’t see a single way in which China is making steps towards becoming a stateless, classless, moneyless society.
Nazis were national-socialists, the contradiction was in the name already. But they also had socialists as main enemies.
China is ruled by the communist party who still issues vast left literature. If China is not left, no country is left or ever will, as there are no perfect countries and that seems to be the condition number one to count as real left.
WW3 all the imperialists are acting at once
One sentence that fell during the Merkel phone spying affair:
Countries don’t have friends, they only have interests.
Don’t think of countries as people; people have morals and one direction they go. This to some of the comments here.
I think you could argue that the five Nordic nations are pretty friendly with each other, and it’s not just interests. The Nordic Council works very well. I can’t think of anywhere else on Earth I could argue this though.
Does this mean Lai Ching-te is gonna to be the president of One China?
Leftists are normally anti-imperialism
You’ve apparently never spoken to a Marxist-Leninist though some would argue they are not Leftists.
There is a second axis between libertarian and autoritarian.
Ok, that’s not Left-Right though. Left-Right is no kings and kings which over time go expanded into a political spectrum with Anarchy on the Far Left and Absolute Monarchy/Dictatorships on the Far Right.
Now is the perfect time for them to do it, I can see why! America may not even respond.
Yes, I know we are an ally and we’re supposed to immediately go to war. So what? We promised to defend Ukraine from Russia, too. Look what happened.
Japan has openly vowed to defend Taiwan if China invades.
How will that stop China? Japan’s military is very limited (by design).
Japan is but a USA lapdog. They won’t do anything that would displease their master.
I don’t know about that. Most of the world isn’t happy with the US right now. They may have been the case 10 or 15 years ago.
I don’t know about that.
Well… current PM of Japan self-identifies as Trumpist.
As a side note, she also admires Margaret Tatcher. And also has complimented Hitler’s policies.
Well that sounds “fun”
The perfect time is in 10 years when China is so technological advanced and culturally leading that the majority wants to join voluntarily.
As it is now, I don’t think there would be any armed resistance to China without American opposition.
China is already backing Russia though, the safer course would be to just wait it out until the dollar collapses. On the other hand, such a war may be the last straw on the camel’s back for the USA.
For the first time ever in my life, I see someone claiming that China is left-wing. Left and authoritarian are usually at the opposite spectrums.
That is what Animal Farm was talking about - that authoritarianism can take over any political ideology. It isn’t a anti-communism book, but anti-authoritarianism.
You must have .ml blocked
Communism is supposed to be a left-wing position right? But I’m saying I’m not sure I would see China as properly leftist given their behaviour. Wanting to take external territory potentially by force seems imperialist to me, and I would see imperialism as a right-wing behaviour.
Communism does not exist. I consider myself a leftie but I don’t believe in communism, it has never worked and will never work.
What lefties actually believe in (including those who think communism can work) are social systems (part of socialism, which looks like communism, but that’s the difference - balance versus extremity). China’s social systems are supposedly very good, but they’re still capitalists (which isn’t necessarily bad if the government does it’s job like in most of EU and according to many - China)
I think you need to have a clearer idea of what left wing and communism are, how the CCP, PRC, and China are different, and know the CCP’s argument for Taiwain is. Relately, it would be important to know the ROC’s claim as well.
Once you know what communism is, you’ll have to ask yourself is the PRC communism? Can a single nation state be communist? How can a single party be legitimately move a government to communism through authoritarian means? How would it work otherwise? Is the CCP position on Taiwain imperialism? Does that argument hold water?
Tell that to Mao and Stalin’s victims.
from what i’ve learned (through experience, not through books), left-wing people don’t like oppression and control as long as they’re the ones being controlled.
as soon as they’re the one controlling others, however, the tide changes. you can see this in germany where self-described leftists want to tell other people that they can’t drive fossil fuels driven cars anymore (“gegen die Technologieoffenheit”) or that everybody has to install a heat pump in their homes. the complete opposite of letting other people live their lifes un-interfered. all of this is justified with the supposed “higher good” (mitigating climate change). you can see where this is going … authoritarianism, unfortunately.
But utilitarian measures are there to protect and improve lives. Banning fossil fuels would piss off a minority group, while saving orders of magnitude more human lives. Similar groups have whined about seatbelts, airbags, gas vs. electric/induction ranges, even the amount of water flowing in the toilet bowl.
It’s not like there aren’t alternatives to ICE vehicles, nor are people being limited in travel or told they can’t drive. It will really only take one or two generations for the butthurt whining “authoritarianism” to become a footnote in history. By then, burning gasoline for basic travel will seem as ridiculous as keeping a horse and buggy at the ready does now.
IMO china is making a mistake here. there’s one way to poison yourself and that is to eat something that does not want to be eaten. and the same is the case here. china is a successful country and they could just call that a win and leave it at that. instead, they (think they) have to swallow taiwan, and they will poison themselves. they will get a lot of people into their country that do not want to become a part of china, and they will seek to destroy china from the inside, which is much easier to do than from the outside, and this could become a real danger to china. china should not seek to conquer taiwan against the will of its people.
China has some really big domestic issues right now with record unemployment rates so naturally their drumming up nationalism to distract people. Though AI boom is carrying China through and I really hope they back down.
From what I see on Tiktok right now the propaganda machine is in full swing. Every video on Taiwan is spammed by bots saying “Taiwan is China”. With Taiwan’s opposition blocking defense budget it 100% seems like China will go through political offense first before invading.
I understand your point, but they seem to have subjugated Hong Kong pretty successfully. I would agree with you more if that hadn’t recently happened.
Well the PLA has barracks inside HK since the handover from the UK. On the other hand, blockading or invading Taiwan would be the largest amphibious invasion in human history
Hong Kong is a small tax haven - Taiwan is a full independent country. I really think we’ve past the point where physical annexation can work with guerilla warfare and sabotage being so easily accessible in this day and age. I think CCP agrees that’s why it’ll take a decade to wear Taiwan down still
IMO china is making a mistake here.
Are they going to conquer or are they just pretending?
The USA has killed the USSR by forcing them into an arms race. China already has the bigger production capabilities. All the bases and aircraft carriers cost resources that cannot be used elsewhere while China still has several hundred million people who seek employment.
it really sucks for the 90%+ of Taiwanese people who don’t want to become part of China
They literally moved to the Island of Formosa to escape it
There is an expression in science that needs to be used more in polysci 'all models are wrong" The right wing vs left wing political spectrum is a model of political ideologies and a very simplistic one at that. It is also used interchangeably for fundamentally different political tenants. Large government-small government, authoritarian - libertarian, capitalist - socialist. Models are only as good as their ability to predict reality and they are always wrong, they are just simplified models of reality. The moment you are confused saying “but if this country is X-wing, why are they Y” You are either misunderstanding the model, misapplying the model, or are misunderstanding the actual value of a model.
The full expression is “all models are wrong, but some are useful”
The expression is often expanded to that, it is not an incomplete expression without though.
China will give Trump something to look the other way when they re-take Taiwan, and he’ll do it. There will be a huge outcry from both sides, but he will order Hegseth to stand down, and since he’s Commander-In-Chief, Hegseth will do it.
There might be an impeachment, but no conviction, and the American people don’t know or care enough about Taiwan to want to go to war against China, and eventually it will blow over, and leave another black mark on Trump’s legacy, which he won’t care about because he got a plane, or a boat, or a pile of money, or permission to build a Trump Tower in Taiwan, or something.
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We’ve already seen this scenario over and over, in Syria, in Qatar, etc. He is up for sale, and EVERYBODY knows it.
In Trump’s world, there’s a price tag on EVERYTHING, and China can afford it. They know that this would be their easiest chance to get it, and I doubt they’ll let that opportunity pass.
If the only issue is chips, they’ll promise him access to the chips, as well as the bribe. He’ll take that without hesitation, they’ll renege on their promise, but it will be too late to do anything about it.
This is a declaration of war IMO. By one old dude against the whole world order (the international laws).
As the US has known for some time, the international order only applies to poor countries. Like a spiders web ensnares the fly but allows the pig to tear straight through
I’m not excusing the USA, two bad does not make right.
It doesn’t but this is the real fucking world
As an American I’m happy to see China kept in its place until it can compete with America on the human rights it gives its citizens. America might exercise ill-acquired and unethical hegemony over the world at times but apart from maybe the EU theres not another superpower candidate I’d trust more with that hegemony.
As an American I want my tax dollars to go toward something other than murdering civilians overseas
Oh, same! Yeah we’ve got a lot to do to fix this country, for sure. Kind of exciting to know we have the opportunity to fix how we want it considering the unprecedented dysfunction
I’m happy to see China kept in its place until it can compete with America on the human rights it gives its citizens
You mean the disappearing of tens of thousands of people who get kidnapped on the streets by militarized fascist police? Or are we talking about the highest imprisonment on Earth, with 1 in 5 black men going through prison?
Why does every fucking topic, no matter how far it is from US, ends up with someone ranting about US?
Because the US just sold them $11b worth of weapons? You act like the US is not involved in any way.
whataboutism isn’t to dismiss the point. whataboutism is to put things into context and establish proportionality.
what was the reaction internationally when the US invaded other countries? that allows you an approximate estimate of what will happen when china invades other countries.
Downvote and move on friend
China and Taiwan are already at war. The Chinese civil war never had any truce, armistice, surrender, or anything. ROC pulled back to Taiwan, PRC didn’t follow, and then it just stopped.
Frankly, a part of me suspects that whole AI RAM and SSD hoarding rush into “data centers” that aren’t even plugged to a power plant is a manufactured market push to begin hoarding electronic components before China invades Taiwan. I suspect a lot of oligarchs would be less willing to feed the AI bubble if they didn’t have a post-Taiwan invasion world to compensate their investments if it doesn’t work out. You think there’s scarcity now, just wait until the invasion happens. China invading Taiwan is going to make China lose a lot of support, one has to wonder what they think they will get out of it.
Taiwan would not have such a big target on its back if it weren’t for TSMC. TSMC should have diversified throughout the world yesterday, but because of wealth and power, Taiwan has to pay the price. The politics and arguments are gaslighting; China isn’t interested in Taiwan, they are interested in controlling the market necessary for even basic modern warfare - advanced microchips. I don’t know if its due to the greed that they are blind to it or perhaps they are perfectly aware of it, but attacking Taiwan will be treated as an attack against the world by many countries. It will provoke a reaction several times worse than what Russia attacking Ukraine did. By driving down their viability as a trading partner, they will make a lot of countries consider other options that are way outside of the contemporary political landscape today.
TSMC was developed by a Taiwanese citizen to be a “silicon shield” - it’s too valuable for other countries to risk a war.
It’s why trump was trying to cajole TSMC to move 50% production to the US and they were like “nah”
It became an opportunity, and US investors and interests needed to project power around the globe and a means to tie power around the region. It has its days numbered because China is slowly becoming a more capable competitor, but China’s obsession in invading it will not only it but will work towards the interests of other geopolitical powers in and outside the region.
What you claim has also gone the way of USAID when Trump came in: https://pr.tsmc.com/english/news/3210 It was a soft power technique that put US interests ahead through mutual interests, but Trump doesn’t believe in mutual interests, just winners and losers like most despots.
they are interested in controlling the market necessary for even basic modern warfare - advanced microchips.
china already has the capability to produce advanced microchips themselves (it was in the news literally 3 days ago, i’m too lazy to search it out rn) and they’ve been heavily investing in research into microchips the last year so it makes sense they made significant progress.
on the other hand, the us is already building chip capabilities in its own country to become independent from taiwan and so taiwan doesn’t have the significance internationally anymore that it used to have.
i’m even inclined to say that china waited deliberately for taiwan to lose its international status before attacking, so other countries wouldn’t rush to its aid so much.
They don’t, they are approaching it but don’t have the scale. The people smuggling NVIDIA chips instead of using Huawei for AI would be laughing at these claims.
The US is and would be if they were preparing to back out of a conflict between the US and Taiwan. It would take several decades for TSMC capability to be distributed across different countries, even the US isn’t going to reach it. I don’t know where you are getting the notion that Taiwan is “losing its international status” when the first multitrillion company in the world and its customers is so dependent on it. Taiwan’s “international status” isn’t conditioned on the companies they can bully to keep from recognizing criticism coming from over there regarding mainland China, it’s industrial, technological, and military.
I can agree with some of the things you’ve said elsewhere. China is a successful country, and given time it will surpass Taiwan in terms of advanced microchip manufacture. It could even decide a fast one by not invading one and essentially causing the bursting of the AI bubble to be that much worse for US investors that have gone all in on it.
The problem with China is that it is also facing economic problems itself, which usually causes the more deranged and desperate notions to be the deciding factor. The enemies it is making internationally and their attempts to impose their will over other countries and their industrial sectors in its rise to power also isn’t helping it out, and they aren’t even trying or capable of winning a cultural war when part of it requires a great amount more censorship than the societies they want to impose on. It is under an authoritarian government that still has a lot of its founding military mindset. If China was forward thinking and was capable of using PR to control their messaging instead of suppression, they would be a lot more successful and a lot less prone to the internal corruption they now have to deal with, often severely in place of effectively.
Taiwan would not have such a big target on its back if it weren’t for TSMC.
It’s the other way round. Taiwan is needed for airfields and to deny deep sea submarine bases to China. The US let Taiwan have the monopoly on advanced semiconductors to have the world defend Taiwan against China.
That’s not “the other way around”, that’s just why it got to where it is.
I’d be amazed if China didn’t take advantage of the current inept and corrupt American government.
