Dreaming about this since more than a decade. My issues are banking apps, health related apps and basically anything somewhat official. A lot of them won’t even work on a rooted Android device. How are things looking in that regard with Linux phone projects?
Linux phones don’t even really exist right now. Wonder why Ubuntu has never tried again.
Genuinely interested, but any time I look into it it requires hardware that’s expensive to import or many years out of date.
The oldest phone I still have lying around is my Pixel 7 that was my initial jump into GrapheneOS, I haven’t found any distros that are compatible with a Pixel newer than a 4a. If anyone knows of a compatible distro I’d make the jump.
Graphene is a good upgrade over stock android.
You can keep track of this page:
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Google_Pixel_7_(google-panther)
Android is already the linux phone. It already exist, there is no need to recreate something that exist, it is much easier and more efficient to improve an already working base project.
Every android kernel takes Linux and makes it closed source when the code is included to make it work with the hardware.
And? Do you want a Linux phone or an open hardware phone. One might happen the other not in anything people would want to use.
not really sure what the argument is here, this is a problem about manufactures not publishing their source code for their drrivers and firmware,
having another linux based mobile os would do nothing to solve this issue.
furthermore i doubt grapheneOs would describe their kernel as closed source
Full advantage, of their hardware from 1996 /s
Maybe a slight exaggeration but I’m really tired of Linux phones that are charging flagship prices for mid grade hardware from 10 years ago. I don’t expect the latest chip by any means but fuckin come on.
I say this as a full time arch user of the past 10 years lol. I love linux and want kde mobile on my phone. I would just like one from this century is all
So who is the strongest contender here? I hear stuff about pinephone, then nothing. Fairphone, more silence. Purism, so much silence.
I will happily pay someone now for a half decent phone so that by the time android is fully enshittified we all have a place to go.
Hardware wise, I’m not sure. Google Pixels seem to be the most likely hardware target in the short term.
Software wise… Probably GrapheneOS and LinageOS forking Android to create a community OS around it, and PostmarketOS as the full Linux phone distro.
There’s bigger problem is going to be replication of the backend services Google provides. Push services for instance. That’s going to be a project in itself.
Here are the big Linux phone contenders that I’ve found:
I think the only promising one these days is the Furilabs FLX1, but it’s definitely good to keep an eye out for how things progress from here.
just found out about jolla https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone
Interesting! Thanks for sharing! Looks promising. I wonder how the Jolla C2 compares to the others I listed
$550.00
Fast, performant and cheap
It may be fast and performant, but it’s not cheap.
If I had $550.00 to spend on a new device I would spend it on a good and powerful computer, for video editing and 3D modeling, not on a phone.
For comparison an used business laptop, costs about $120, an israeli spyware loaded phone costs about $150.
Going from that to $550 is a big jump, and not affordable for most internet users.
What kind of phone do you get for 150 used.
One that the hardware perfectly fits my needs.
Browsing some web pages can be a tiny bit sluggish sometimes, but if I’m doing anything serious I will use the computer anyway.
For what I use the phone for, which is, playing music, watching video, instant messaging, reading, light browsing and Lemmy I couldn’t ask for more.
I also don’t care about the camera, if I want to take photos I will use my DSLR.
The only single problem I have with my phone is the software which is non-free and loaded with spyware. Not the hardware.
I’m an electrical engineer, so I grew up learning about electronics and how you can buy a lot of stuff from Mauser, Vishay, etc.
Usually those companies offer better prices if you buy more and more bulk goods.
For those companies making Linux machines, they might not have the same economies of scale to reach cheaper numbers than Samsung or Google. Then again, Linux phone makers don’t have to add the same amount of profit margin as Samsung or Google, although they still have to make some profit to sustain their business.
$550 seems cheaper to me than a carrier phone, which may be a lot of these manufacturers’ markets.
I had not heard of furi labs until now. I do have some concerns that they operate out of hong Kong, have no published corporate structure or stated ownership and that they are able to produce something so far ahead of any competitors.
It smells like its got a lot of money and resources into it and I’d really like to know who is funding it.
They show one employee on LinkedIn and no job postings. Company size is 2-10 people.
When something seems too good to be true, it probably is. Purism sells their phones for 2x the cost, theyre huge and half-done. I would wager that they are a more realistic representation of where the market really is.
One of the developers used to work (maybe a lead?) on Droidian(/maybe Waydroid; I don’t remember, unfortunately) so part of the advancement probably has to do with already having familiarity of the problem-space.
Also, Purism is trying to serve up entirely libre hardware whereas FuriLabs is using Halium to simplify how well things work in the hardware.
So of course Purism is having a much harder time with things.
And literally none of them are available for sale in (or shipping to) my country…
You might be able to work with a reshipper/parcel forwarding service, but I can understand the apprehensive sentiment if these products aren’t officially sold in your country.
The last time I checked, the website wouldn’t even accept payments from my country…
As far as I know, the most useable pure Linux phone right now is the Furilabs FLX1. They’re currently out of stock, and doing preorders for their second batch. By “pure Linux” I mean “a distro pretty close to what you can use on your laptop.”
There’s also several phones that can run Sailfish OS, including an official device. Sailfish OS isn’t quite vanilla Linux, but it might the most useable and supported non-mainstream option. I can’t find a clear answer about if you can run regular Linux applications on it, though.
I used Sailfish OS on a Sony Xperia smartphone for about a year until my carrier switched to VoLTE, and Sailfish OS at the time didn’t support VoLTE. It does now, though, so I plan on trying it again soon.
Furilabs has my attention simply because you can “seamlessly” run android apps on FuriOS in a container called Andromeda. Might be next after my Pixel 9 /w GrapheneOS is used up.
There’s also a grapheneos phone coming out soon which gives a bit of hope
Are you referring to just the rumors that they will partner with an OEM, or did I miss an actual announcement or something?!
This. Really hope it ia good.
I’m not sure FLX1 counts as a full 100% Linux phone. It uses the android driver stack in order to then boot to Linux. But I guess this might get them stuck with old insecure drivers? Not sure this is the best long term approach.
I thought it was basically Debian with Waydroid preinstalled.
No. the FLX1 uses a project called Hallium, which as I understand it, basically runs an Android container and the original Android kernel to interface with the hardwareWeird. I checked the website & forum again, and what I can see still says it’s a Debian fork that uses Waydroid. Where did you read that it uses Hallium? Not that it’s important, but I’ve been planning to get one, so I want to be sure I know what I’m getting.
I got it from https://blog.luigi311.com/furilabs-flx1/. Furi labs specifically links to this article on their website, so I would assume it’s factually correct.
I see where it says the phone is a Halium-based device, but then under Android support, it says they use their own Waydroid fork. So, I guess those aren’t mutually exclusive. Good to know, thanks.
Hu? They joy of s linux phone is, that Hardware is not locked to specific software, isn’t it?
I mean if you can install a Linux distro, you can install any Linux distro, not?
So we just need hardware that is strong enough as well as power efficient enough
Maybe a good screen and big battery
It’s one thing to have the hardware allow you to install anything. It’s an entirely different thing to get a set of software capable of managing a phone running on there. Phone hardware is super proprietary most of the time. Even if they release the drivers, someone still has to incorporate them and any hardware features into their OS.
I would not be satisfied with not using mainline kernel…
Briefly looked into it, and Sailfish OS looks like it’s getting closer to reasonable for an average user. The Aptoide store seems to have major apps (WhatsApp), but it still requires some tinkering, like going into several settings screens manually to do things that pop-up automatically in Android. Not too bad, but definitely only for someone who’s okay with a bit of tinkering.
WhatsApp is a “must” for most users globally as it’s the defacto messaging protocol standard used most places. Probably more important than SMS/MMS for most users. At least until everyone starts to switch over and something better (Signal, probably) starts to get a big enough install base that people use it.
In Canada, I frequently tell people they can Signal, text, or Whatsapp me, but the only people who ever use Signal with me are family I installed it for.
Games are probably a big deal, too. tbh, it’s not a “must”, but I’d be annoyed if I couldn’t play Minion Masters on my phone. (But I could probably set up Sunshine/Moonlight streaming, if needed.) I’m guessing a lot of people have games that they wouldn’t accept not being able to use.
Jolla Sailfish OS. Can buy a phone from them preinstalled, or flash certain Sony Xperia devices with the OS. Runs smooth as butter and has 2+ day long battery life according to owners. Its based on the old MeeGo project from Nokia back in the day and is based on Debian.
If you want something more Linux-like then the FLX1 is it. It runs very close to stock Debian Stable with Posh as the UI, but it runs some Android code underneath for device drivers, so its not a “pure” Linux system, but it’s a very good experience and still not controlled by Google.
I wouldnt recommend Fairphone if you want to do Linux stuff with it, it’s a perfect AOSP or LineageOS device though.
Can buy a phone from them preinstalled
If you’re in the EU… they don’t ship to North America sadly
I wouldnt recommend Fairphone if you want to do Linux stuff with it, it’s a perfect AOSP or LineageOS device though.
Why not? Ubuntu Touch lists Fairphone 4 and 5 as 100% fully optimized and even writes “The Fairphone 5 is currently the best supported device with Ubuntu Touch.” I am curious to try this out.
I know there are postmarketOS build for Fairphone as well (but more limited in functionality, so I am not considering this yet).
You can install Ubuntu Touch on the Fairphone 4 & 5. It is pretty well supported.
We’ve been ‘setting up the ground work’ for Linux on Desktop and Phones for decades. It’s not the groundwork that’s the issue, it’s adoption.
Its the lack of openness and standards on hardware, drivers, and boot sequence for ARM chipsets and phone hardware that’s the problem. x86/x86_64 hardware had standards that the industry settled on so the Linux adoption was fairly quick, with phone hardware, every phone, android kernel, camera hardware and driver, display hardware and driver, etc is slightly different so the hardware is so hard to adopt when literally every device has to be blackbox reverse engineered because the hardware manufacturers don’t make anything open or standard.
That’s an adoption problem. The manufacturers don’t care for it, they have no reason to.
Well then ya have a chicken and egg problem, if hardware manufacturers don’t care to do things ‘correctly’ because of lack of interest in Linux adoption, but there’s no Linux adoption because of the lack of ‘correctly’ done hardware.
Basically Canonical was like 15 years too early on this one. They created phones capable of running Ubuntu Touch, but the price tag and lack of supported apps probably killed interest in it. With Waydroid, now, you can supplement the apps with android apps until the Linux phone app ecosystem catches up.
We need a large funded Linux project to foot the bill on making the correct hardware to get the Linux adoption, but Canonical already tried that and failed back in 2012. 15 years later, I think the world is finally ready now, for a Linux phone.
It is not ready for a Linux phone. It’s barely ready for Linux on PC. The phone market would be much smaller. I’d love a Linux phone but I would need a android auto or carplay equivalent or compatible interface.
Not sure but waydroid might be able to run android auto, I have a device running postmarketOS and Waydroid, unfortunately my vehicle is too old for android auto but if I’m around any friend’s vehicles, I’ll try it out and see if it works.
–edit–
just checked my device, I think android auto comes installed with the android image that waydroid boots, which at the current time is Android 13, based on LineageOS 20 it looks like.
Groundwork on what? The only Linux phone I’ve seen that I’d want is the Jolla C2 and they don’t ship outside the EU so I can’t even get one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen
Remember LiMo, which became Tizen? What about MeeGo?
I think I had a Samsung watch that used Tizen but it’s not exactly prevalent outside of their devices. Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see more mobile Linux, but Sailfish seems the best bet to me and even so has a pretty limited device selection, and hardware is way too variable still.
A standard and modularized base for phone hardware would be nice, or maybe something like Pi but for phones.
Linux phones better be perfect or they’re not worth pursuing waaaaah.
Is phone calls, text, and battery management the baseline?
Phone… calls??
It’s the only way to get ahold of an audiologist for some reason
Yeah when work needs you to come in early or on your day off
I’m not sure what case you’re making
My bad, I thought this was !linuxmemes@lemmy.world
Is that where you video dial the nephews?
I think it’s one of those tech things that scammers use.
My next phone will be a Linux phone. Might be an old refurb. But if Google is fucking up android I don’t have a choice.
They just posted this today. Do with it what you will.
I’m not really interested in a phone that runs linux on top of Android software, like what furi labs does. They use Halium, which makes it more like phones running Ubuntu touch or Droidian like what Volla does rather than something like the pinephone or librem V.
The Furi’s been around for a while. I’m hoping I can get one of the second batch due to be released soon, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they sold out again pretty quickly.
Now, why not just fork AOSP a la grapheneos?
Why we always have to invent something new? Why not just take the fork in the road and go build something better from it?
Thinking modern os, not even google has been able to do it (fuchsia).
Google is becoming more and more a pain the as releasing AOSP. And they’re migrating towards more and more proprietary. I think the worry here is having the work power to keep it updated and maintained.
I’m guessing the idea is that with this effort, it makes more sense to migrate to Linux phones instead.
Pretty much. Google does a lot of heavy lifting, and they have a lot more pull with companies, which is why Android works now.
It really is too bad that Google didn’t have to move Android to the Linux Foundation and make it a true community project.
Asking the question I was wondering about too. If Google wants to kill AOSP eventually that’s all fine and dandy but that doesn’t stop people from forking it and continuing its development. And that way, at least, we don’t end up with another Windows Phone conundrum where the OS is perfectly fine but will eventually die due to lack of app compatibility (although Windows Phone’s demise was helped by some truly knuckleheaded executive decisions too to be fair).
Or, failing this, all Linux phones need a flawless Android emulation layer similar to Proton for Windows games, because I am afraid it will be a significantly steep uphill battle otherwise.
We have already tons of apps for Linux… And soo many "apps” are already just fancy websites in a container…
FirefoxOS for phones was such a great idea
I am so sad it did mot take off, was a great concept
Someone is trying to revive FirefoxOS: https://capyloon.org/
(and it kinda survives to this day as KaiOS on feature phones).
I’ll undust my pinePhone pro and flash it on it
🤔 maybe even worth filming it for peertube
Tonns of apps for linux are made with PC UX in mind and thus completely unusable on the phone.
I disagree
I have a pinePhone pro, and I love using desktop UI Apps on it. But it is too slow and has too less battery for me to be usable
But I love high DPI on small screen without Zoom
I must confess, that I currently use an iPhone as daily driver, but to come back to the topic, I have a 12mini and my browser is set to 50% all the time.
I know most apps are just webview2 these days, but since more and more companies are forcing their consumers to use apps by either gimping their websites outright or forcing users to use 2FA based on their own app, app support is vital for any mobile platform.
I speak from experience - I kept using my Nokia Lumia 1020 Windows Phone until the bitter end, which came when the government ID app stopped being supported on my device and I had to switch to keep being able to connect to the vast majority of services (Sweden’s BankID system is both a blessing and a curse this way).
But I cannot order a car on my desktop, or check my bank balance.
I don’t understand why that is the case.
Do banks in your country not have net-banking? You know, when you can just login using your user account and password and then just download a pdf of your transactions report?
The likes of Razorpay (this came to mind because Steam) and other merchant payment processors can connect to this bank-provided interface for transferring money without even having to give anyone your credit/debit card information.Can’t use web ux without phone.
Oh, you mean the OTP thingy, which is probably an SMS solution (which is a pretty bad idea as is)?
Or is it that you require a smartphone to be able to open the webpage?Neither.
emulation layer is the way to go IMO, best of all the worlds.
Absolutely 100% agree. Rosetta and Proton are great examples of how native-like emulation can be implemented to help support platform transitions.
best part is that it’s also inherently a way to preserve old software, it’s way easier to get ancient windows games running in proton than it is on actual native windows.
IMO one of the greatest parts of a pure linux phone is that nothing is new. It runs the same apps as my desktop and works in the same way, so I don’t have to learn two sets of apps. Other than stuff like call management and Phosh, the desktop environment I use that’s tailored for small screens, I run all pre-existing software like systemd, wayland, firefox, nautilus, etc. IMO the biggest hurdle is hardware support, since only a few phones are able to run pure linux, and even on those few, there are still many parts of the hardware that are not supported.
I assume, part of the changes Android has, would be more ways to reduce standby battery drain, tuned to mobile phones?
And maybe their alternative for systemd is more suitable for mobile phones.And since I irrationally favour Linux, perhaps we can come up with a
systemd-mobile, tuned for RISK and ARM based mobile-phone systems, which keeps in mind, power used by cell-radio, WiFi modules, etc.
But of course, first and foremost, we need to have a standardised pre-boot system, like we have for PCs, making it much easier to manage development, without piling up plastic and Silicon paperweights.
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Because we want general computation machines, not walled gardens.
Honestly, I am fine with a walled garden for a mobile phone that I don’t intend to do much on.
Just that, I get to decide where the wall is made and what it is made of.
Oh, and the cracks in the wall don’t lead to corporations.
I have a work phone I can fall back to in the worst case scenario, and I have been consciously avoiding phone use a lot lately.
I am ready to ride out some bugs in a Linux phone.
Edit to add: Or, given the state of the US government and its potential close ties to various tech oligarchs, maybe I should just keep this old iphone as long as possible and just not put anything sensitive on it. I mean we’re talking about violent people who think “if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about” is unassailable logic.
If you say it’s hard to install use the https://sailmates.net/ service then advocate that your local repair shop also offer this service then join your distro’s channel for troubleshooting.
NLNet really needs to start funding Flare, the GTK Signal client. If there was a native, fully featured client, I’d drop flaship price on a Linux phone yesterday!
Flare is good enough that I use it daily. The fact that it cannot act as Signal’s “Primary Device” does kinda suck, but I just have a separate Android phone that I keep around for bullshit like that. It definitely is annoying that Flare only can see messages after you add it as a secondary device though.
And it also lacks a ton f features. I use the video/voice calls a lot for example.
I don’t think I’ve ever even used Signal’s call features, I forgot it even had them lol.
wish my phone wasn’t carrier locked so I could switch to graphine
Same; though I just need the phone completely paid off then I can unlock it.
