The narrative that hamas was created simply to oppose the “secular” plo don’t work because Hamas collaborate with non Islamists .

Again, I never said this, I don’t know where you’re getting this from. I said that Israel assisted many non-secular groups, what became Hamas was merely one of them. Israel created nothing, they certainly assisted them in their early days.

Your assertion that because Hamas works with non Islamists they couldn’t have been created to oppose the secular PLO makes no logical sense. I don’t even understand how this point makes sense in your head?

Islamophobia is the hate of Islam, not only Islamists, so Islamophobic people would still not support Palestine when the PLO is also majoritarily Muslim

You really just don’t understand what I am saying do you? You also clearly don’t understand the game Israel is playing here. You do not understand the multifaceted plan that the Israeli leadership is currently playing out to steal the entirely of Palestine. You are focusing on one small issue but completely missing the bigger picture. I have tried but I don’t think I can help you understand.

Wrong. If no countries had recognized and built relations with Israel after the Nakba, the genocide would never have happened.

Again missing the point completely.

Before Hamas even existed, the Western countries’ populations were more supportive of Israel than Palestine. Imagine saying “I support Israel” just after the Nakba

It’s like you don’t even understand the difference between the media landscapes then and now or how now that people can actually see what is going on their opinions are shifting. This is an important moment in Palestine’s future and you are choosing to fight a pointless fight on the early days of Hamas because in your mind Hamas mush be pure, any Israeli contamination, even funding in their early days somehow delegitimises Hamas. It does not delegitimise Hamas one bit, purity tests like this only harm revolution. Sometimes it takes a bad thing to kill an even worse thing.

What you are ignoring is that despite that Hamas colaborate with non islamist groups.

I do not dispute or ignore this

The problem is that your argument is used to deligetimize Hamas as a resistsnce group.

I don’t agree with you here, you are viewing this issue as black and white, ignoring the shades of grey that most of the world actually lives in. In trying to undermine their opponent Israel helped create a new one that was more violent and aggressive. It initially looks as though this was a mistake by Israel but it was the subtext for the subsequent genocide in Gaza.

The point is not to delegitimise Hamas but to show how the Israeli propaganda and colonial expansion work hand in hand.

But most people are not dumb

You give people too much credit, the evidence all around us including but not limited to what is happening in Gaza should be proof of this. Mass media indoctrination of islamophobia over the last 30 years has achieved its goal of manufacturing the consent required to dehumanise Muslim people in the Middle East. If people understood there would never have been a genocide in Gaza.

They undwrstand settler colonialism is one of the worst thing ever

The vast majority of people don’t understand that Israel is a settler colonial state in the first place and think the Jewish population has always been in “Israel”.

You don’t seem to understand that Hamas can be both an indigenous resistance group retaliating against Israel and financed by Israel in its early years as a religious counterbalance to the secular PLO.

You also don’t seem to understand how it is beneficial to Israel to be fighting a group like Hamas over the PLO in how Israel presents this conflict to the media and the world. Israel can point at Hamas and say “look at these Muslim extremists, you can’t negotiate with them. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, looks what Hamas do to women and gays! This war is to do with religion, the Muslims always want to destroy the Jews.” This narrative was not possible against the PLO, if you can’t see how this situation favours Israel when selling the story to the Western audiences and how Israel much prefers it this way you are hopelessly myopic.

Israel did not fund Hamas. Qatar send funds to the Hamas goverment.

I am not talking about this funding, I am speaking about their early funding, back before they were even called Hamas. Yitzek Segev, former Israeli general and military governor of Gaza in the early 1980s admitted as much in an interview with the New York Times.

You seem obsessed with defending Hamas’s autonomy to the point where you are blinded to Israel’s larger game plan. The fact that Israel provided funding to Hamas in its early days does not delegitimise Hamas as an organisation.

China has filled its oil reserves over the last few years by buying cheap Russian oil, funding Russian aggression in Ukraine.

But with over 1,100GW of solar capacity and with strong electric motor industry driving EVs, last-mile transportation, and now all-electric shipping container vessels I don’t think theyre sweating over oil anymore.

This reads like promotional propaganda that in no way discounts the fact that China is by some way the worlds largest oil importer. The two things are not mutually exclusive, China is the world’s factory and requires huge quantities of energy, renewable and fossil to sustain its manufacturing economy. In 2024, 62% of electricity generation was fossil fuels. As of 2025, 10% of the cars on Chinas roads are EVs.

China, while it is travelling in the right direction it still has a long way to go to eliminate their reliance on oil and fossil fuels.

You look great! Like someone left a wax sculpture too close to a radiator.

Russia has been getting its cheeks clapped pretty hard by Ukraine lately. I am sure the Russians are looking to grab on to any little successes they can to try and break out of their current death spiral.

It’s cute that the Russians are still using the word “liberate” to describe the capturing of foreign territory in an illegal land grab. Reminds me of when a pickpocket “liberates” a wallet from a marks pocket.

My point has nothing to do with the PA and is not an assessment or comparison between the PA and Hamas and who is doing the more effective work today. I believe Israel has been committing a slow genocide in Palestine ever since 1948 that has recently turned into an outright in your face genocide. Israel is a genocidal apartheid settler colonial ethnostate. I am not anti Hamas and understand their position that armed conflict is their only choice against total destruction.

I would also known what the point exactly of saying israel used Hamas to sabotage the PLO

The point of saying it is to show that Israel funded a group of religious extremists to destroy Yasser Arafat’s PLOs progress towards peace and a two state solution.

Israel found it difficult to demonise the secular PLO to Western audiences. Muslims are a much easier enemy to forment in western minds. Israel has been one of the major international forces driving islamophobia in western minds, manufacturing consent for the middle eastern forever wars the west has been in for the last few decades (ironic considering the Israelis love screaming “antisemitism” over the slightest perceived slight ).

How can it be used to help palestinians today.

By understanding how Israel has been manufacturing consent in the consent to view Muslims as lesser and lower the Western audiences sympathy when it comes to Israel’s genocide of Arabic and now Iranian people. It is hard to argue that Israel has not been success in its task when watching the framing of this conflict in western media.

If it was a good faith argument , people would mention that the plo fall for it

This is not necessary for it to be a good faith argument, I struggle to comprehend your line of thought here?

The PLO didn’t fall for anything either, they called out Israel’s actions at the time but had little power to actually do anything about it as they didn’t control the media narrative. This is still irrelevant to whether or not the argument is in good faith or not.

Is the whole article not a bit of a straw man, the only people I have heard claiming Israel created Hamas are those who have misinterpreted the often muddy history of this conflict. Given Israel’s past actions accusations like this are not unfounded.

Based on the evidence available it is likely that Israel assisted Hamas in its early days to form an Islamic counterweight to the secular PLO in the age old divide and conquer strategy. The article itself states;

To acknowledge that Israel exploited “the existence of Hamas to further divide the Palestinians and facilitated control over them, is one thing.”

“To claim that Israel invented or created Hamas is totally another, if absurd, thing,” Hroub said.

It is clear that the Israeli government prefers their opposition to be what they can describe as “Muslim extremists” rather than a secular organisation. Israel’s assistance to a nascent Hamas went hand in hand with their and USA’s manufactured mass media islamophobia indoctrination.

This article focuses mostly on the disagreements between the PLO and Hamas while glossing over Yitzhak Segev’s admissions to Shipler. There is a fascinating account out there by David Shipler of the Israeli governments attempts to stop the articles publication after they found out about Sergevs admissions.

China, the world’s largest oil importer doesn’t give a fuck about oil anymore?

They have an aircraft carrier that can’t go far without a tug boat in case it catches fire. The USA already showed the world in January of this year what it thinks about the Russian navy and Russian power projection. We all know that Russia has nuclear weapons because they yap about them almost every day. The USA also has nuclear weapons so I fail to see your point other than to yap about Russian nuclear weapons.

Russia is the best example of faking it until you make it as a superpower. The war with Ukraine has shown why Russia is not at the big boy table for a variety of reasons. The Ukraine war has been baffling to me as an independent observer considering the supposed discrepancy in military power pre war. How has Russia not managed to press home any of its multiple advantages? The problems go all the way to the top.

Russia lost its Black sea navy to a country without a navy and is currently bogged down in the 5th year of a conflict a few KM from its own borders. I don’t think those Russian losers are in a position to do much right now.

In a debate when the opponent can respond with nothing of substance and chooses to instead engage in pointless ad hominem attacks they have lost and I have won. I chose not to engage with your juvenile playground insults, they bore me.

Ok so first you accuse me of spewing drivel and an accusation that I believe in “bullshit propaganda” followed by an accusation that I am “trashy” whatever that means, I don’t speak American.

With all of this venom you were spitting I was assuming you were coming at me with some irrefutable proof of my fallacy, you sounded so confident!

What is this proof, hmm…An opinion piece from what looks to be a newsletter called “The Canada Files”, a group that for some reason reports exclusively on Canadian foreign affairs. I decided to have a read anyway and what I got was an article that had an almost unreadable style of prose due to the emphasis on the titles of characters and institutions tangentially related to the story to lend legitimacy. The “story” is light on evidence relying heavily on circumstantial claims. I actually looked at the “grey zone” piece it was based on and this was even worse. This is all just propaganda buddy and not even very convincing propaganda, it’s poorly written rubbish.

Now I’m trying to figure out if you are simple minded/poorly educated or are purposely trying to push poorly written propaganda? If it is the former, get educated before talking to the big boys. If the latter, get better at your job homie or you will be fired!

You were really struggling in your last response, I knew I had you! A passive aggressive stock response, delicious.

And my whole point, from the very start, that you were replying to was that it’s a tiny percentage of the overall energy mix

You would still be incorrect, almost 50% of electricity generation in the EU was from renewables. In China this figure was somewhere between 35-42%. Sort out your own house before you go knocking other people’s.

if Europe was actually serious about clean energy then it would be a lot higher

Imagine pontificating about what others do about clean energy while standing on a mountain of coal. China is the most polluting country in the world by about 3x the country in second place (USA) in terms of CO2 emissions. You dirty boys can sort your own polluted country before lecturing us in the EU you massive hypocrite. You are like a drug addict telling me to go easy on the sugar. I’ll take my advice from someone with a shred of credibility, you talk to me about dignity? Please! Also you telling me in your last comment that we can’t tell the Chinese what to do while you are telling us that we need to buy more solar panels from you, do you not understand what hypocrisy means?

Imagine being such an ignoramus to think that’s what China produces

The world was fine before China joined the WTO and we will be fine if we were to stop trading with them, China on the other hand certainly needs our money to sustain its economic growth. If growth stops in China the whole pyramid scheme collapses, China can’t afford to fight both the USA and the EU in a trade war, not with China’s massive and potentially crippling debt problem. Maybe if China didn’t do so many state subsidies they wouldn’t be in so much debt?

I don’t get how you think Trump is “running circles” around the EU, there is no evidence of this here. The EU has finally faced up to its position in the USA - EU alliance and has made promising steps to secure sovereignty while keeping trade with the USA going and money coming in. Is China somehow winning with a 30% drop in year on year trade and falling with it’s former biggest customer.

It’s not a false equivalence dummy. It’s the exact same thing. The fact that you’re trying to paint it as such is hilarious. You got caught lying loser.

I’m not sure if you are lying or just don’t understand that 70 year lease on every piece of land that is worthless at the end is the same as the government in Ireland doing a compulsory purchase order paying fair market value for your property if the land is needed for critical infrastructure. This is absolutely a false equivalency, only a lack of education would make someone think they were in any way similar.

You’re like a housecat that thinks that it owns the house.

And you guys in China got a sniff of money and now think you are royalty. There is nothing unique about the Chinese economy and now that China isn’t as cheap any more there is no incentive to buy from them any more. We will move the manufacturing of our cheap polluting plastic crap to Africa or India and if they get delusions of grandeur we can move it again.

Feel free to provide articles that anything changed. And here’s a more recent article for you to cope over

First you give me out of date articlesthat support the view of your echo chamber and now you present me with this unrelated crap. Big whoop, China is now liked more than the genocide supporting imperial scum Americans. Congratulations on winning the tallest dwarf competition! America does all of that bad stuff and China is still hated as much as America. You have literally presented me with an article about how hated both China and the USA are, congratulations.

We all know why the world dislikes China too, we haven’t forgotten China’s own ongoing genocide against its Uyghur people. All of China’s neighbours dislike China as a result of their squeaky voiced sabre rattling around the South China sea while building their little loser islands that nobody else acknowledges. Both China and the USA suck ass.

My whole point was that the EU buys plenty of solar and wind off China, you are making a show of yourself now looking for holes to pick in the argument that you already lost. You think I am lying by omission, I think you are moving the goalposts after losing the argument.

LMAO that’s not how it works Einstein. The idiots in EU can do idiot things inside the EU. They don’t get to tell Chinese people how to live.

I’m glad you find it funny but this is exactly how it works Einstein. The EU found China was subsidising it’s auto industry so they tariffed the Chinese auto makers that broke EU rules. It is not telling Chinese people how to live, live however you want but if you want to sell to us, which they clearly do they have to obey our rules. What do you even mean this is not how it works, this is what is happening right now, doesn’t matter if you believe it or not, lol.

But yes, you can certainly cut yourself off from the biggest industrial economy in the world and see how that works out for you.

This is grand, we will just buy our cheap plastic crap elsewhere, lol. We should have cut China off the minute they spat in our faces by supporting Russia, Chinese support is the only reason Russia is still in this war.

Oh man, wait till you learn about eminent domain.

You accuse me of lying by omission, I will raise you with a false equivalency. Compulsory purchase orders value property at current rates favourable to the land owner. Not the same thing as the Chinese government owning the land under you and being able to low ball your short remaining lease or not renewing your ground lease. My wife’s uncle had his house and garden bought by government CPO for £15 million in the 1990s, not a bad deal of you can get it.

You then give me a selection of 3-4 year old news articles about the Russian war as if we live in a vacuum and they are still relevant. Nothing changes more quickly than people’s opinions, your out of date articles are useless here buddy and don’t disprove the official voting record. If they make you feel better in your feelings go on ahead and keep reading your old articles.

The USA has been the largest economy in the world since 1870-1890. By 1913 they were more than twice the size of their nearest global rival. The USA has been a world power for a long time, they just used to be a bit more isolationist, they should go back to doing that.

The 996 work practices do still continue and are just an extreme example of how terrible working conditions are across China. I would much rather work less hours for more money in better conditions that are available in the EU as the bare minimum by law. This goes to the quality of life issue, Europeans have more time off work to spend with family and friends.

The purchasing powers of the Chinese people are increasing year on year (as are European who started at a much higher level but obviously can not increase at the same rate.) but the problem with China is that they are likely as a population to get old before they get rich. China faces demographic collapse over the next 50 years due to the disastrous one child policy. Demographics is destiny.

unless you believe healthcare, education and paid leave are treated the same uniformly. Not every country in the EU is like Sweden or Germany.

Some countries like Sweden offer their citizens extraordinary social benefits so it would be unfair to compare them to most countries. My point is that the EU minimum worker protections are orders of magnitude above anything in China. The EU does a much better job protecting the dignity of its work force than the “people’s party” in power in China.

You could even get 100% of your panels, it’s what total percentage of energy production that amounts to overall that matters.

Come on buddy, my 5 year old could formulate a better sentence than this. I can’t even make out what you are trying to say with your nonsensical drivel.

Absolutely incredible that needs to be spelled out for you. Let me try using an example that somebody with your mental prowess might be able to comprehend

Then you have the cheek to follow up your poor English with insults of my intelligence. The hypocrisy is hilarious.

but that’s still only 1% of your total power generation mix.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong, maybe try a bit of research before you open your mouth. Almost 50% of EU electricity generation in 2024 was from renewables.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/ddn-20250702-1

Last I checked, China isn’t part of the EU.

Never said it was Einstein,

if they want to sell to the EU the rules apply and China is relying heavily on increasing EU trade now that the USA has tariffs on China.

You sure love providing sources for your claims. That’s what makes them so believable.

The only source you provided was a 4 year old article from a rag of tabloid, “Business Insider”, as if that held any weight or credibility. I do not count that as a particularly reliable source.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2026/02/23/europes-wealth-divide-mapped-where-are-adults-richest-and-poorest

This article uses stats from UBS global wealth report 2025.

Chinese people’s high relative wealth is due to high property ownership rates in the country, about 90%. The people in China only actually own the buildingz the government owns all the land, leasing it out for 70 years at a time with no guarantee of renewal. In Ireland I own my house and the ground under it until I sell it.

When the whole world is your enemy, maybe you’re the problem

Incorrect again my friend, the UN votes on the Russian war proves this. Not even China votes to support Russia, they typically abstain like the cowards they are.

Smug eurotrash deserve everything that’s coming to you.

There is is, the chip on your shoulder, lol. Have a great day buddy.