I also LOVE star trek but as someone generally for peace and a decentralized, just world, I can’t pretend that Starfleet isn’t a thinly disguised military.
I absolutely think the heart of the show shines through, but the Liberal influences can often insert our failings as perfectly normal. Things that would not appear just or equitable in a socialist society like The Federation, are placed in as sort of accepted and normal.
she is. she’d also be insulted to win best captain on the grounds of fewest crimes commited. probably maroon the picard kid on a prewarp planet for the crime multiplier stats.
I feel TNG and Voyager never outright justified it, but rather found a way to minimize and debate it and try their nest to end up on the most moral objective whereas sisko let the ends justify the means and then said he’d do of again lol.
In The Pale Moonlight is one of the few episodes of Trek I can name by name, and it is probably my favorite episode of all Trek.
It is the point when Sisko is just done with all the bullshit, and played the game to the fullest.
Starfleet command were not in a metal state of war at the time, neither was Sisko at first, but something snapped inside of him, and he turned on war mode.
It is a clear shift in his personality as he realizes the normal Starfleet way isn’t working, and he took matters into his own hands.
This topic also brings to mind a book I read a year or two back. The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare which showed a lot of “dishonorable” moves the Allies employed in WW2. Better to fight dirty than lose to the Nazis, they figured.
There’s a nice parallel. The noble Federation captain figures it’s better to fight dirty than to lose to the Dominion.
I think Sisko gets misunderstood on this point. It’s not unlike Picard in First Contact, when he starts to take the Borg incursion too personal. Or analogous in some way to the “Corrupt Admiral” trope. It’s not to Gene’s utopia views for sure, but it shows real fallible characters and the story of them.
I did appreciate it from his perspective honestly. I just felt that it was too neo liberal for my tastes and in part abandoned the secular humanism part I love about trek.
I like ds9 but any captain who justifies warcrimes is disqualified from best trek.
So… All of them?
I also LOVE star trek but as someone generally for peace and a decentralized, just world, I can’t pretend that Starfleet isn’t a thinly disguised military.
I absolutely think the heart of the show shines through, but the Liberal influences can often insert our failings as perfectly normal. Things that would not appear just or equitable in a socialist society like The Federation, are placed in as sort of accepted and normal.
we only saw like 3 minutes of seven as an official capatain. she wins by technicality here.
Seven is amazing
she is. she’d also be insulted to win best captain on the grounds of fewest crimes commited. probably maroon the picard kid on a prewarp planet for the crime multiplier stats.
I feel TNG and Voyager never outright justified it, but rather found a way to minimize and debate it and try their nest to end up on the most moral objective whereas sisko let the ends justify the means and then said he’d do of again lol.
I hated that episode when I saw it the first time. I felt it betrayed everything I imagined Starfleet to stand for.
Rewatching the show last year…when it came up again, I got it. Something about the Dominion war changed the context.
I hadn’t actually seen anything else from that season the first time around. It made a difference.
In The Pale Moonlight is one of the few episodes of Trek I can name by name, and it is probably my favorite episode of all Trek.
It is the point when Sisko is just done with all the bullshit, and played the game to the fullest.
Starfleet command were not in a metal state of war at the time, neither was Sisko at first, but something snapped inside of him, and he turned on war mode.
It is a clear shift in his personality as he realizes the normal Starfleet way isn’t working, and he took matters into his own hands.
This topic also brings to mind a book I read a year or two back. The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare which showed a lot of “dishonorable” moves the Allies employed in WW2. Better to fight dirty than lose to the Nazis, they figured.
There’s a nice parallel. The noble Federation captain figures it’s better to fight dirty than to lose to the Dominion.
Agreed but in part thats because they still needed to ground the story for everyone to relate and . . well . . *gestures to everything*
Good point. I can absolutely see that.
Disguised how? It’s literally Federation’s military.
True. When it comes to wars it is, however the writers are SOOO adamant that they are a “exploration and science corp” when in peace time.
They ARE an exploration and science corp in peacetime.
I think Sisko gets misunderstood on this point. It’s not unlike Picard in First Contact, when he starts to take the Borg incursion too personal. Or analogous in some way to the “Corrupt Admiral” trope. It’s not to Gene’s utopia views for sure, but it shows real fallible characters and the story of them.
I did appreciate it from his perspective honestly. I just felt that it was too neo liberal for my tastes and in part abandoned the secular humanism part I love about trek.