BLUF: Title, basically.
Extra Context: A couple years back, I picked up the 4th edition of Twilight: 2000. For those don’t know, this is a post-apocalyptic RPG which was first released during the absolute peak of Reagan-era Cold War saber rattling. Unlike other, more fanciful or escapist takes on life “after the end”, Twilight skewed much more simulationist, with Tom Clancy levels of hard-on for NATO and Soviet personnel and equipment statistics. Think This War of Mine meets ARMA 3, moreso than Fallout or Wasteland.
I start with this preamble to communicate how different in tone this system is from the games of 5e DnD I’ve played and run in the past. While the latest version of the Twilight rules is, to my understanding, significantly less packed with grognard crunch than previous iterations, I still find myself overwhelmed with all of the various mechanics and slight rule variations. As an example I hope is illustrative, to fire a weapon classified as a machine gun, your character uses their “heavy weapons” skill, but they follow the “ranged combat” rules, because heavy weapons typically refers to explosive type weapons. You also have to remember whether the MG you’re using is classified as Light, Medium, or Heavy, as there are different requirements/penalties based on your character’s stance. In and of itself, not too bad, and it pretty much tracks with the considerations I would put in place if I were designing this system, but it becomes a bit much with the everything else of the system. Case in point: the entry for hand grenades states: “grenades use the same rules as heavy weapons, with these exceptions:” and then goes on to list 6 bullet points, which makes me think that it hardly uses the same rules as heavy weapons at all lol.
To be clear, I don’t necessarily want to jettison this level of crunch, as I think it’s integral to the tone the system is designed around, but fuck me if it isn’t a lot to keep track of, especially since I’ll have to shepherd potential players through it efficiently if I have any hope of actually playing a game.
With that being said, any advice from the field? Experience with Twilight would be a bonus (any edition), but if anyone has general tips for tackling new systems, I’m all ears.
It gets easier with each new system. After a while it becomes “ok, so it’s approach to skills like in the other system and the armor rules from that other one”. What I do when assessing a new one is:
- how the basic mechanic works?
- we build the roll only from PC or also consider gear?
- how modifiers work? + to roll, step up dice, another dice, move TN?
- what are the odds of success, failure and “bigger success” on three edges of of skill - lowest, middle, top
- what does the bigger success mean mechanically?
- are there re-rolls/pushing the roll? Does it change the odds or is only a re-roll
- how leveling up works?
- what is needed to level up?
- how much does a level up change in the roll odds?
- how does money work?
abstract vs counting all the bills - is there anything exotic in the rest of the rules
things that are there to convey the feel of the setting- contacts working like money
- rules for gear getting used up
- running out of ammo
- meta currency
is it a hard earned boon or “the spice must flow”?
With crunchy systems I’d then forget about the more intricate half of the system, get the game on and try to have combats of varying size during first few sessions. Most of the time, if there’s crunch in the system, it’s mostly about combat.
Write on players’ sheets shortcuts what to roll on doing what. Like next to the gun name “shooting d6+d8”.
During first few games when you remember that there was some more crunch in the system but don’t remember exactly, don’t stop to look up. Ask a non-spotlighted player to search for it but “for now let’s roll this and that against that” and keep going.
Keep an eye out if they are getting into the crunch. If they won’t follow you down the rabbit hole in a few (3-5. not less) games, it might be that either you get the rules etched in your brain or that level of crunch is just not for this tableAnd on closing note, as far as I understand what T2k is, I would guess that getting their hands on an MG is not something common in the setting and the complexity of the rules for that are an outlier. I might be wrong, though
Your points about getting a baseline understanding of the flow and adding crunch in as GM and players get comfortable is well taken. My initial strategy was to focus on only one mechanic (in this case, firing a ranged weapon), but to know that mechanic absolutely front to back. However, in this system, firing a ranged weapon interacts with almost every mechanic in the game, so I was still trying to drink from the firehose. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your input.
- how the basic mechanic works?
If I wanna learn it, I usually have to be a player first.
The few times I’ve had to be the GM it always comes off the cuff. My most hated thing is pausing a game to look up mundane rules about encumbrance or climbing or anything.
Eventually you’ll learn, at most just write down what you should look up later.
The glass cannon recently did a campaign of it that’s going up on their YouTube channel currently
I always find it helpful to check some actual play to cement my understanding of certain rules. Although there’s no way to guarantee the actual play is definitely correct obviously
Aye, I’ve been following their uploads and it has been helpful from a general observation perspective. I wish they were a little clearer about the rules they are navigating, but I recognize it’s not a teaching cast either. I will say it’s been illuminating how free-wheeling the Ref is with the NPC rules, which has helped me conceptualize the flow a bit better.
Right, a good lesson in and of itself I’d say. Sometimes you wanna modify shit to keep things moving
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Read the book
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Create a bunch of 'test character"
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Use these test character for a “test one shot” with player interested to try, and understanding that the point of the one shot is to learn to GM the system
Read the core rule book. Play a session. Evaluate if I liked it enough to continue playing it.
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I don’t sweat to much with the details. Being a GM is hard as it is.
IIRC the gameplay loop from Twilight 2000 (and other Free League) is pretty simple and that’s the basis for everything else so remember this one and put the rest in your memory maybe it will come back, maybe not 🤷♀️ have fun
Could be I’m just dumb and unfamiliar with crunchier RPG systems, I’ll freely allow for that, but man, I feel like you and I have a different definition of “simple” lol. Considering this is a flowchart for adjudicating a single Ranged Combat roll, to say nothing of any other mechanic in the game. Granted, this is particularly egregious, but it’s also the main thing most characters will be doing in combat.
I suppose the old adage holds true. How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice.
Maybe it’s me that come from SR3 and think that anything not near that is simple 😅
IIRC most of the gameplay loop for T2K is roll Two Dice, count your successes, assess what they do.
I think that when played you mostly need that at least it was my experience in Mutant Year Zero
Is SR3, ShadowRun 3rd edition? I’ve never played, beyond the tutorial of the revival cRPG from years ago, but I recall being similarly aghast at the plethora of options in the character creator. It’s a shame, because the premise is awfully enticing. Ah well, as someone else in here mentioned, it seems like learning new systems has some inertia to it. The more you learn, the easier it is to learn more, since there only so many ways to roll a die lol. Maybe Shadowrun can be a project for future me.
